OK for a woman to baptize?

[gb93433]

Prophesy is to tell of the coming of the second coming of Christ and that was given to all His children who believe. Preaching is another matter, it was only given to men.

Actually prophesying is about 98% preaching. If you read the OT prophets that is true.

We have an order in our Association that only ordained authority can baptize. We do not have any ordained women.

I am sure you know what Spurgeon thought about ordination.

Some ordained Baptist men today are pedophiles in jail too.

 

[Cutter]

Just read about the history of the early church.

God gave you a brain to use. Scripture never tells you to use an air conditioner but common sense says it is a nice modern thing.

Your post makes absolutely no sense. Can you please clarify?

And with everybody that thinks it is OK for women to baptize, I guess we will just have to respectively disagree.

 

[Tom Butler]

Sure, the Scripture that backs it being ok for women to baptize is Mat 28:18-20.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

​

Don't really see anything in there that says part A is for men and women, part B only for men (or, just pastors), and part C, well, back to men and women.

Jesus gave this commission to the church he established during his earthly ministry, composed of the eleven apostles. The commission was to each church which came afterward. The churches were to guard the integrity of the ordinances, and to administer them. The churches determined who would baptize on their behalf. They were responsible for determininig who was a proper candidate for baptism and church membership.

Although every example in the Scriptures indicates that men, authorized by their church, did the baptizing, I believe there is some wiggle room for women to baptize. The Great Commission, however, is not a proof text for that practice. Nor do we find any instance in the NT where a woman baptized anybody.

In another post, you described baptism as trivial, compared to salvation. You could not be more wrong. The vicious persecution of Baptists and their progenitors was solely because of baptism, and the insistence that only regenerated believers could be so immersed.

 

[Brother Bob]

Actually prophesying is about 98% preaching. If you read the OT prophets that is true.





I am sure you know what Spurgeon thought about ordination.

Some ordained Baptist men today are pedophiles in jail too.

Scripture is scripture. To be able to tell of the coming of Christ is prophesying to me, don't know about you but I think my own mother prophesied by telling us that we needed to repent, for Jesus was coming back to receive the believers.

Act 2:17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


I am sure there are some in jail. I think I recall one case in over 35 years. What does that have to do with my post???

BBob,

 

[gb93433]

Scripture is scripture. To be able to tell of the coming of Christ is prophesying to me, don't know about you but I think my own mother prophesied by telling us that we needed to repent, for Jesus was coming back to receive the believers.

Og course what you stated about Christ's return is prophesy. However prophesy includes much more than just that.

Lok at the books of the OT prophets.

A few examples in the NT are Acts 11:27, 28 and Acts 21:8-11

 

[donnA]

The preaching of the Gospel is just for the men. Unless some sister is the husband of one wife. In today's world, that could be so, I guess.....

I simply believe that "baptizing" is a part of the ministry of the preacher.

I should of used the following scripture.

Mar 16:15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

BBob,

So apparently women aren't included in the instructions for the church, women aren't responsible for teaching other women to follow what God teaches us in the bible. So apparently, we really have no biblical responsibilities at all as far the great commision, no teaching, no sharing about Christ, nothing.

 

[Brother Bob]

Og course what you stated about Christ's return is prophesy. However prophesy includes much more than just that.

Lok at the books of the OT prophets.

A few examples in the NT are Acts 11:27, 28 and Acts 21:8-11

I am at a lost, I just stated that women can prophesy, but not preach. I really do not understand your comments. I am sure you do.

My posts were all true posts, and that is all I know.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

So apparently women aren't included in the instructions for the church, women aren't responsible for teaching other women to follow what God teaches us in the bible. So apparently, we really have no biblical responsibilities at all as far the great commision, no teaching, no sharing about Christ, nothing.

I get the feeling that some are trying to make something out of my posts that is just not there. I did not say the women could not teach the younger women. If you mean, can they teach in the role of a minister, NO! Can they testify or prophesy about the coming of Christ and the life of a Christain, YES!

I personally think that many women are not satisfied with the work they are supposed to do in the church and want and desire the positions of the Brethren. Not all women, but I certainly have seen many. We have a church in the area that is completely controlled by a women Pastor. That is not for me and I consider it against scripture. The very OP, is leaning in that direction also. IMO


1Ti 5:2The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

If it was not for mothers teaching us about Jesus, I don't know where any of us would be. There is nothing greater to me than an old Christian mother, teaching by words and mostly the life she lives before us.

BBob,

 

[Bob Dudley]

Origianlly posted by Tom Butler
Jesus gave this commission to the church he established during his earthly ministry, composed of the eleven apostles. The commission was to each church which came afterward. The churches were to guard the integrity of the ordinances, and to administer them. The churches determined who would baptize on their behalf. They were responsible for determininig who was a proper candidate for baptism and church membership.

Actually, I think the commission was not to "each church" but to "the church" (i.e., Christians, the body of Christ). If the churches determine who baptizes then they must determine who can witness. And "each church" did not determine who was a proper candidate for baptism. The second someone made a profession of faith in Jesus they were baptized.

Origianlly posted by Tom Butler
Although every example in the Scriptures indicates that men, authorized by their church, did the baptizing, I believe there is some wiggle room for women to baptize. The Great Commission, however, is not a proof text for that practice. Nor do we find any instance in the NT where a woman baptized anybody.

I think this is the proof text for ALL Christians to fulfill the great commission. Men and women, both, make up the body of Christ, the church. Neither is excused from fulfilling the great commission.

Origianlly posted by Tom Butler
In another post, you described baptism as trivial, compared to salvation. You could not be more wrong. The vicious persecution of Baptists and their progenitors was solely because of baptism, and the insistence that only regenerated believers could be so immersed.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. There is NOTHING in the world that compares to the importance of accepting Christ as your Savior. That makes an eternal difference. Don't get me wrong. Baptism is important - God commands it. But trusting in Christ is the only thing that will get you into heaven.

 

[donnA]

I get the feeling that some are trying to make something out of my posts that is just not there. I did not say the women could not teach the younger women. If you mean, can they teach in the role of a minister, NO! Can they testify or prophesy about the coming of Christ and the life of a Christain, YES!

I personally think that many women are not satisfied with the work they are supposed to do in the church and want and desire the positions of the Brethren. Not all women, but I certainly have seen many. We have a church in the area that is completely controlled by a women Pastor. That is not for me and I consider it against scripture. The very OP, is leaning in that direction also. IMO


1Ti 5:2The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

If it was not for mothers teaching us about Jesus, I don't know where any of us would be. There is nothing greater to me than an old Christian mother, teaching by words and mostly the life she lives before us.

BBob,

Since the great commision is for men only you say, and it specifies teach, then I assume you mean only men can teach, if as you say it is for men only. But if it is for all christians, then women can also teach (not men though).
I'm quite satisifed with the work I am supose to do in church, and want very badly to do, but so far no one will let me. And I am not new to this church nor a new christian, I'm been there since 1991, and not allowed to do anything. Thats what I am dissatified with, I want the roll I am supose to have.
I get sick and tired of being viewed as worthless just because I am a woman.

 

[Steven2006]

I want the roll I am supose to have.

It has been my experience, that when I became more willing to serve in what was just asked of me, and what was most needed of me in order to be the most helpful, rather than what I might have personally desired, it was a real blessing.

 

[Tom Butler]

Actually, I think the commission was not to "each church" but to "the church" (i.e., Christians, the body of Christ). If the churches determine who baptizes then they must determine who can witness. And "each church" did not determine who was a proper candidate for baptism. The second someone made a profession of faith in Jesus they were baptized.

"The Church" to which Jesus gave the Great Commission was a visible group of people (the Eleven) which had already baptized, observed the Lord's Supper, marching orders from the Head, and instructions on how to handle church conflict. "The Church" as you define it actually does not exist. It is a useless fantasy. If it does exist then it is dysfunctional and divided and does absolutely nothing to advance the kingdom. The only entity uniquely qualified to carry out the Great Commission is the local congregation.

think this is the proof text for ALL Christians to fulfill the great commission. Men and women, both, make up the body of Christ, the church. Neither is excused from fulfilling the great commission.

Again, baptism is not a Christian ordinance, it is a church ordinance, given to the local church. Paul told the congregation at Corinth to guard the ordinances (I Cor 11;2) and gigged them hard for improper observance of the Lord's Supper. Paul also told the Corinthian church that it was ThE body of Christ. (12:27)

We'll have to agree to disagree here. There is NOTHING in the world that compares to the importance of accepting Christ as your Savior. That makes an eternal difference. Don't get me wrong. Baptism is important - God commands it. But trusting in Christ is the only thing that will get you into heaven.

My comment was not to diminish salvation, but to challenge your low view of baptism, which you described as trivial.

 

[Brother Bob]

I believe there is "one" church. There are local churches which are a part of the "one" church. Not everything that calls itself a church, is a part of the "one" church.
IMO,

Act 2:47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Col 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

I believe the "church" goes back much farther than many believe.

Act 7:38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

BBob,

 

[gb93433]

I am at a lost, I just stated that women can prophesy, but not preach. I really do not understand your comments.

Certainly women can preach. Pastoring is a different story. All pastors preach but not all preachers are pastors. Prophesying in the Bible may or may not always include the future. It is mostly preaching.

While the gift of prophecy certainly includes the ability to see the future, a prophet is far more than just a person with that ability. A prophet is basically a spokesman for God, a person chosen by God to speak to people on God's behalf and convey a message or teaching.

Examples of female prophets in the Bible

Sarah - Gen 11:29 - 23:20
Miriam - Ex. 15:20-21; Num. 12:1-12:15, 20:1
Deborah - Judges 4:1 - 5:31
Hannah - I Sam 1:1 - 2:21
Abigail - I Sam 25:1 - 25:42
Huldah - II Kings 22:14-20
Esther - Esther
Anna - Luke 2:36-37
four daughters - Acts 21:8-9

 

[Brother Bob]

Certainly women can preach. Pastoring is a different story. All pastors preach but not all preachers are pastors. Prophesying in the Bible may or may not always include the future. It is mostly preaching.

While the gift of prophecy certainly includes the ability to see the future, a prophet is far more than just a person with that ability. A prophet is basically a spokesman for God, a person chosen by God to speak to people on God's behalf and convey a message or teaching.

Examples of female prophets in the Bible

Sarah - Gen 11:29 - 23:20
Miriam - Ex. 15:20-21; Num. 12:1-12:15, 20:1
Deborah - Judges 4:1 - 5:31
Hannah - I Sam 1:1 - 2:21
Abigail - I Sam 25:1 - 25:42
Huldah - II Kings 22:14-20
Esther - Esther
Anna - Luke 2:36-37
four daughters - Acts 21:8-9

They might preach, but it will not be the Gospel.

They were not preachers of the Gospel because the prophesied. I don't think either one of them is the husband of one wife??

You can prophesy without preaching the Gospel. = To predict a coming event.

synonyms see foretell

BBob,

 

[Bob Dudley]

Brother Tom, are you saying that the body of Christ doesn’t exist? I’m confused.

I am a Christian, part of the body of Christ, and I win people to Christ all the time. I don’t see myself as dysfunctional – a bit sarcastic at times and prone to eating too much on the weekends – but not dysfunctional.

And, baptism IS a Christian (synonymous with church) ordinance.

Anyway, my whole point is that, if women are allowed to witness and lead people to Christ, why the hiccup on letting them do something infinitely less important than salvation – baptism? What are we afraid of?

We have to be sure we let Scripture talk to us and not let our prejudices (in this case our traditional ecclesiology) color our interpretation of Scripture. The great commission (all 5 times it is given) was to all Christians. And all Christians are expected to fulfill the whole commission (Eph 4:11-12).

And, Brother Bob, of course women can preach the gospel, they do it everyday and God honors their efforts with people saved all the time. Preaching the gospel is simply telling people about Jesus. The woman at the well (John 4) preached the gospel. And that whole “husband of one wife” thing is a red herring. First, the Greek is “one woman man” and second, there is also a list of requirements for a deaconess in the same passage (1 Tim 3:11).


The bottom line: there is NO Scripture that forbids a woman from leading others to Christ, from baptizing or from discipling. The only thing women are barred from doing is pastoring a congregation.

 

[gb93433]

They might preach, but it will not be the Gospel.

They were not preachers of the Gospel because the prophesied. I don't think either one of them is the husband of one wife??

You can prophesy without preaching the Gospel. = To predict a coming event.

There is a huge difference between a pastor and preacher.

Billy Graham is not a pastor but an evangelist.

So you think that women did not give out the gospel to other women in the early church?

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Tom, are you saying that the body of Christ doesn’t exist? I’m confused.

I am a Christian, part of the body of Christ, and I win people to Christ all the time. I don’t see myself as dysfunctional – a bit sarcastic at times and prone to eating too much on the weekends – but not dysfunctional.

And, baptism IS a Christian (synonymous with church) ordinance.

Anyway, my whole point is that, if women are allowed to witness and lead people to Christ, why the hiccup on letting them do something infinitely less important than salvation – baptism? What are we afraid of?

We have to be sure we let Scripture talk to us and not let our prejudices (in this case our traditional ecclesiology) color our interpretation of Scripture. The great commission (all 5 times it is given) was to all Christians. And all Christians are expected to fulfill the whole commission (Eph 4:11-12).

And, Brother Bob, of course women can preach the gospel, they do it everyday and God honors their efforts with people saved all the time. Preaching the gospel is simply telling people about Jesus. The woman at the well (John 4) preached the gospel. And that whole “husband of one wife” thing is a red herring. First, the Greek is “one woman man” and second, there is also a list of requirements for a deaconess in the same passage (1 Tim 3:11).


You need to tell the Lord to remove this part from scripture, that it is a "red herring".
Titus:
5: For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7: For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8: But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9: Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.



The bottom line: there is NO Scripture that forbids a woman from leading others to Christ, from baptizing or from discipling. The only thing women are barred from doing is pastoring a congregation.

You kinda turn these scriptures on their head don't you?? Kinda hard to find scripture on a deaconess???

Eph 4:
8: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9: (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10: He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12: For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


Tim 3:
10: And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11: Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

1Cr 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Kinda hard to preach and be silent all at the same time.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

There is a huge difference between a pastor and preacher.

Billy Graham is not a pastor but an evangelist.

So you think that women did not give out the gospel to other women in the early church?

Give scripture of a woman "preaching". I do not want one who prophesies of the coming of the Lord, but one that preaches the Gospel.

1Cr 14:35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Maybe you could give some examples where women preached because there were sent of God to do so.

Mar 3:14And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,


BBob,

 

[gb93433]

Give scripture of a woman "preaching". I do not want one who prophesies of the coming of the Lord, but one that preaches the Gospel.

1Cr 14:35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Maybe you could give some examples where women preached because there were sent of God to do so.

Mar 3:14And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,


BBob,

Your definition of prophesying is wrong. So I cannot satisy a heresy with scripture.

Plus the fact that I gave you several examples of women prophets in post #254