Old earth or young earth?

[Reynolds]

The earth clearly has some dating issues given we have found trees growing through supposedly thousands of years of soil, given the existence of giant hill-like chevron's formed by catastrophic flooding of coastlines, and given we have found human remains in coal.

Still for those who look out to space, the show seems over and the stars and planets must have apparent age.

You bring up a good point about space. Either the universe is old, or God created it mature. Light from stars millions of light years away did not get here By natural means in 6000 years. I have always found it ironic, and sometimes actually funny, that many Christians who believe God created the Earth "with the appearance of age" get all bent out if shape when a scientist interprets that appearance of age as old.

 

[TCassidy]

God did not create anything with "the appearance of age." He created the universe, the earth, the ecosystem, and man, as mature, fully functioning entities.

The purpose of the stars, according to Genesis 1, is "to give light upon the earth." Genesis 1:15.

And in case we missed it He repeated it in verse 17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."

It would be a pretty stupid god to create the stars to "give light upon the earth" then forget to create the light shining on the earth.

 

[BobRyan]

A poster recently said to me that after I was asked how old the earth was and I affirmed a young earth I would lose people and the conversation would stop. Well I don't care as I care only for the truth and the Bible is quite clear that the earth is young and was created in 6 literal 24-hour days.

amen!

1. "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord Made" Exodus 20:8-11 is irrefutable proof that it was a literal 7 day week.
2. Which denomination that has embraced blind-faith-evolutionism ALSO has its growth rate increasing or staying the same instead of having a shrinking rate of growth? Answer: none.
3. We can find a great many atheist/agnostic believers in evolutionism that will say they started out as Christians until they were convinced that evolution was true - instead of the Bible. But it is impossible to find even one Christian who will say that as an atheist they came to accept evolutionism and this caused them to be a Christian.

 

[BobRyan]

I said it to you and I was absolutely correct. I did not say the Earth was or was not young. I said you would lose them at the point you dogmatically insisted The Earth was young. Just bluntly speaking, the reason YOU would lose them at that point is because YOU can't defend it. All you can do is talk about books and links.

We have the Bible -- for many Christians that is "better than" guesswork of man.

 

[BobRyan]

God did not create anything with "the appearance of age." He created the universe, the earth, the ecosystem, and man, as mature, fully functioning entities.

Adam was not created as a "zygote" or some single celled first-stage but rather fully mature. Not to "fake" someone into thinking he was not "created yesterday" but rather so he could function.

God created a functional universe... does not mean all other galaxies had to be created at the same time - but does mean that at each step of creation - it all worked as planned. And the earth was made in 7 literal days (so also the Sun and moon).

 

[Reynolds]

We have the Bible -- for many Christians that is "better than" guesswork of man.

Only problem is The Bible does not date the universe.

 

[InTheLight]

Adam was not created as a "zygote" or some single celled first-stage but rather fully mature. Not to "fake" someone into thinking he was not "created yesterday" but rather so he could function.

Yet, the plants and trees "grew out of the ground" and were not fully mature.

God created a functional universe... does not mean all other galaxies had to be created at the same time

You're not making sense. You are apparently arguing that the whole universe was created in seven, literal 24 hour days. On a cosmic scale that is virtually "the same time." If this is your stance, how do you explain the light from distant stars traveling millions of years? Or are you saying that some galaxies could have been created eons before the earth and our solar system?

 

[Yeshua1]

Only problem is The Bible does not date the universe.

I hold to the younger earth model, but muchmore concerned with Christians trying to have evolution and creationism co existing!
Its either one or the other!

 

[Reynolds]

I hold to the younger earth model, but muchmore concerned with Christians trying to have evolution and creationism co existing!
Its either one or the other!

Agree. I am 100% convinced that macro evolution is a lie from the pit of Hell.

 

[Deacon]

Agree. I am 100% convinced that macro evolution is a lie from the pit of Hell.

Unless it lays within the sovereign will of God as evolutionary creationists believe.

Rob

 

[TCassidy]

If this is your stance, how do you explain the light from distant stars traveling millions of years?

You obviously didn't read my post directed at that objection.

 

[Reynolds]

God did not create anything with "the appearance of age." He created the universe, the earth, the ecosystem, and man, as mature, fully functioning entities.

The purpose of the stars, according to Genesis 1, is "to give light upon the earth." Genesis 1:15.

And in case we missed it He repeated it in verse 17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."

It would be a pretty stupid god to create the stars to "give light upon the earth" then forget to create the light shining on the earth.

And for the record, we are not in disagreement. My point is that maturity carries with it an appearance of age. When a scientist observes a mature universe and dates it according to that maturity, many Christians pitch a hissy and call the scientist a fool. God established the laws of physics. He miraculously worked outside them at creation. We can't fault man for using the laws of nature to date nature. A non Christian is not going to factor a supernatural act into their calculation of time.

I use Adam as a classic example of this. Adam was created a mature man. Had a Doctor been around to examine him a week after he was created, he would say that Adam was 18, 20, 25, 30, years old. Many Christians would pitch a hissy and say "nope, he is only a week old. Doctor, you are a fool."

 

[InTheLight]

You obviously didn't read my post directed at that objection.

1. I wasn't addressing your post.
2. I was addressing Bob Ryan's idea that the galaxies didn't need to be created at the same time.

Re-reading your post I don't see how it addresses the time it takes for light traveling the vast distances from galaxies that are far, far away.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I use Adam as a classic example of this. Adam was created a mature man. Had a Doctor been around to examine him a week after he was created, he would say that Adam was 18, 20, 25, 30, years old. Many Christians would pitch a hissy and say "nope, he is only a week old. Doctor, you are a fool."

Thank you. That gives me a much better understanding of what I believe. The universe does not have apparent age, but does have supernatural maturity like Adam and his wife did.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

God did not create anything with "the appearance of age." He created the universe, the earth, the ecosystem, and man, as mature, fully functioning entities.

The purpose of the stars, according to Genesis 1, is "to give light upon the earth." Genesis 1:15.

And in case we missed it He repeated it in verse 17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."

It would be a pretty stupid god to create the stars to "give light upon the earth" then forget to create the light shining on the earth

I now get your post TCassidy after Reynolds post about a mature universe. I get it now.

I still believe God made the universe with a maturity that tricks those who date nature through nature though. I believe this is the case in order to guarantee we all have faith in God's Word. Instead of using instrument observations to prove the Bible is true.

 

[TCassidy]

Re-reading your post I don't see how it addresses the time it takes for light traveling the vast distances from galaxies that are far, far away.

The purpose of the stars, according to Genesis 1, is "to give light upon the earth." Genesis 1:15.

And in case we missed it He repeated it in verse 17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."

It would be a pretty stupid god to create the stars to "give light upon the earth" then forget to create the light shining on the earth.

 

[Aaron]

When it comes to cosmology, just remember you aren't told everything by the physicists. And you aren't told everything in the Scriptures either. In the debate on origins and destiny, one's presuppositions are the real subject.

For us laymen in the field, it comes down to that, and to whom one believes.

There is simply no reason to think that Moses was describing in the Creation week anything other than a morning and evening like that we observe to today. The real question is does one believe Moses or Hawking?

I would recommend the study of two works before concluding that distant starlight proves an old universe.

Starlight & Time: Solving the Puzzle of Distant Starlight in a Young Universe by D. Russell Humphreys,

and

Starlight, Time and the New Physics by Dr. John Hartnett.​

 

[TCassidy]

My point is that maturity carries with it an appearance of age.

I disagree. Fully functional does not equal age.

Had a Doctor been around to examine him a week after he was created, he would say that Adam was 18, 20, 25, 30, years old.

Then he would have been wrong. And a fool for assuming that functionality equals age.

My pickup is not old. It did not start out as a wheel barrow and grow into a truck as the years passed. It was designed to be a truck. It was made a truck. Only a fool would assume it had grown from a wheel barrow.

 

[InTheLight]

The purpose of the stars, according to Genesis 1, is "to give light upon the earth." Genesis 1:15.

And in case we missed it He repeated it in verse 17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."

It would be a pretty stupid god to create the stars to "give light upon the earth" then forget to create the light shining on the earth.

Yes, I've read that four times now.

Does this mean that you believe God created the earth and the galaxies during the same literal 7 day creation week and the light from distant starts was created already striking the earth?

 

[InTheLight]

I would recommend the study of two works before concluding that distant starlight proves an old universe.

Starlight & Time: Solving the Puzzle of Distant Starlight in a Young Universe by D. Russell Humphreys,

and

Starlight, Time and the New Physics by Dr. John Hartnett.​

OK, Evan6589, we understand that you are recommending we read a book rather than tell us what your thoughts are.