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Old earth or young earth?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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There was a song when I was a kid - Ol' Man River...
Paul Robeson - Old Man River Lyrics | MetroLyrics
HankD
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Well it works in the short term but over long periods of time you have to "assume" nothing changed as far as rates go AND you have to "assume" the starting conditions. Lot of "assuming" gets stuck in place of the actual Word of God "as if" the assumptions of man (that any atheist might make) are every bit as valid as the Word of God when it comes to re-inventing God's Word to fit what man "imagines and then assumes".
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
True. If you are not looking for a divine act of creation (just as we could ask - were humans formed instantly by a catastrophic event or did monkeys make them, or did God make them). And in the case of the Grand Canyon a single catastrophic event could do this when the ice dam broke after the flood and ice-age. Or it could have formed when the land was raised up and the waters receded) - several catastrophic events to choose from.
What about ice core samples from the polar ice caps?
yes, was created by the Great Fllod!
So, what is the evidence? That is a rhetorical question. I've heard lectures and read literature pro and con. One's presuppositions determines his interpretation of the data, and frankly, the YEC geologists have better explanations. In the debates, the Naturalists almost always retreat the "purpose of science," which, they say, is to find Naturalistic explanations for observable phenomena. But that is a philosophical argument, not a scientific one.
What about ice core samples from the polar ice caps?
Both sides use the same evidence, its just the creationist side actually supports the facts!
As far as I am aware just Adam and a flood
Jesus saw Adam and eve as real historical beings!
How about the FACT that light from parts of our very own galaxy takes some 30K years to reach us? (Not to mention the light from other galaxies!)
I believe God allowed us to discover the speeda light for the purpose of clarifying some creation questions.
Now, lemme ask those proficient in ancient hebrew here - Do the first verses of genesis not show that God re-formed the surface of al already-existing earth in "the beginning"?
And God caused Noah to take at least one pair of EVERY animal, bird, insect, etc.on board the ark. thus, if dinosaurs had then existed, they woulda been released with the other animals when the flood receded, and woulda been known to man.
I believe God allowed us to discover the speeda light for the purpose of clarifying some creation questions.
Now, lemme ask those proficient in ancient hebrew here - Do the first verses of genesis not show that God re-formed the surface of al already-existing earth in "the beginning"?
And God caused Noah to take at least one pair of EVERY animal, bird, insect, etc.on board the ark. thus, if dinosaurs had then existed, they woulda been released with the other animals when the flood receded, and woulda been known to man.
No. The so-called "Gap Theory" is utter nonsense. It is not only unbiblical, it is anti-biblical.
The first three verses of Genesis 1 are little understood by most Christians.
Verse 1 is the title of the book of Genesis. It basically tells us what the story following is all about.
1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
- Here is what we are going to talk about.
2. The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.
- This verse is what is known as a circumstantial clause. It relates the circumstances at the beginning of the story.
It is similar to "A man was walking down the street and turned into a pharmacy." The circumstantial clause is that "a man was walking down the street." That tells us what was going on (the circumstances) when our story starts.
The circumstances outlined in verse 2 is that the Earth was unformed (tohu) and unfilled (bohu). Darkness reigned and God's Spirit was present.
Verse 2 begins with what is called a waw disjunctive. The waw disjunctive can be identified by the attaching of a waw to a noun. In this case waw·ha·’a·res (And the Earth). When a waw is used with a noun the waw disjunctive results.
The disjunctive disconnects verse 1 from verse 2. There is no logical or chronological connection between verse 1 and verse 2.
So, the bible does not tell us when verse 1 occurred. Only that it already existed when the story starts in verse 3. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Now note that the waw that begins verse 3 is attached to the verb. "Said God" (waw·yo·mer e·lo·him). When the waw is attached to a verb it means verse 3 follows both logically and chronologically immediately after verse 2. This is called a waw consecutive.
So, is there room for a gap? Such a gap is meaningless as far as the narrative is concerned. Nothing other than the unformed and unfilled ball of dirt in perpetual darkness existed until God, in verse 3, began to form the unformed and fill the unfilled.
No life of any sort was possible as the penalty for sin, death, had not yet been passed on creation.
So, the bible does not tell us how long ago verse 1 happened. In fact, verse 1 is not temporal. It is divorced from the time line and is included only as a synoptic title for the Creation narrative.
But the idea of the gap theory is idiotic. It ignores both the grammar of the Hebrew and the theology of the narrative itself.
From verse 3 until the end of chapter 1 every verse save one starts with a waw attached to a verb making each verse follow, logically and chronologically, the verse before it.
So,
Verse 1: Here is what we are going to talk about.
Verse 2: Here are the circumstances when our story starts.
Verses 3 and following: Here is how God formed the unformed and filled the unfilled.
The first three verses of Genesis 1 are little understood by most Christians.
Verse 1 is the title of the book of Genesis. It basically tells us what the story following is all about.
1. In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
- Here is what we are going to talk about.
2. The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.
- This verse is what is known as a circumstantial clause. It relates the circumstances at the beginning of the story.
It is similar to "A man was walking down the street and turned into a pharmacy." The circumstantial clause is that "a man was walking down the street." That tells us what was going on (the circumstances) when our story starts.
The circumstances outlined in verse 2 is that the Earth was unformed (tohu) and unfilled (bohu). Darkness reigned and God's Spirit was present.
Verse 2 begins with what is called a waw disjunctive. The waw disjunctive can be identified by the attaching of a waw to a noun. In this case waw·ha·’a·res (And the Earth). When a waw is used with a noun the waw disjunctive results.
The disjunctive disconnects verse 1 from verse 2. There is no logical or chronological connection between verse 1 and verse 2.
So, the bible does not tell us when verse 1 occurred. Only that it already existed when the story starts in verse 3. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Now note that the waw that begins verse 3 is attached to the verb. "Said God" (waw·yo·mer e·lo·him). When the waw is attached to a verb it means verse 3 follows both logically and chronologically immediately after verse 2. This is called a waw consecutive.
So, is there room for a gap? Such a gap is meaningless as far as the narrative is concerned. Nothing other than the unformed and unfilled ball of dirt in perpetual darkness existed until God, in verse 3, began to form the unformed and fill the unfilled.
No life of any sort was possible as the penalty for sin, death, had not yet been passed on creation.
So, the bible does not tell us how long ago verse 1 happened. In fact, verse 1 is not temporal. It is divorced from the time line and is included only as a synoptic title for the Creation narrative.
But the idea of the gap theory is idiotic. It ignores both the grammar of the Hebrew and the theology of the narrative itself.
From verse 3 until the end of chapter 1 every verse save one starts with a waw attached to a verb making each verse follow, logically and chronologically, the verse before it.
So,
Verse 1: Here is what we are going to talk about.
Verse 2: Here are the circumstances when our story starts.
Verses 3 and following: Here is how God formed the unformed and filled the unfilled.
And to open a host of others.
Saying "the speed of light is such and such, so the universe is old" isn't telling the whole story.
Adam's Telescope
We can prove that speed of light can slow down/speed up, so how sure are we that the speed has always been same in all Universe?
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
Anyone live near Denver?
About Ice Cores :: Video Gallery
The Ice Core Lab would be pretty cool to check out. It might take a bit of time to manually count the layers on the cores but if you have the time and the credentials, you can check the data out yourself.
NICL Use & Sample Access - U.S. National Ice Core Laboratory
About Ice Cores :: Video Gallery
The Ice Core Lab would be pretty cool to check out. It might take a bit of time to manually count the layers on the cores but if you have the time and the credentials, you can check the data out yourself.
NICL Use & Sample Access - U.S. National Ice Core Laboratory
- Status