Old Regular Baptist (revised)

[abonmarche']

Here's my question: What Baptists are there on the eastern shore of VA now? Are they Old Regular Baptists or are they some other form of Baptist?

The reason why I ask is that regardless of who was there during the colonial period, you now have a cornucopia of Baptists that may/may not have come from the same sources. It wouldn't be just Old Regular Baptist, per se, but various Baptist denominations that can trace their roots back to that time period.

And as rsr pointed out, the General Baptists basically died out here in the states and only until Benoni Stinson revived the name did it take hold in some of the midwestern states. He, of course, came out of the United Baptists.

I guess we are looking at it from a time frame as well.

David

Wow, David you are right. I had no idea that I was going to get so involved into this O.P. That started by Frogman on posting number one. I can only explain what was passed thru my family and relatives and their friends on the Eastern Shore of Virginia. Again it all started at our family farm and its heritage was NOT well liked by locals. We can not build or turn soil on our on land this date. No freedom. Let us reason together. The area there was mainly under the King of England until 1817 I believe February the King signed papers as recorded in our court house. We had three religious events happen in our area. First, Our family were Irish tenants to the Daniel Boston Marshall family before one of the members of the family allowed my Father to purchase the lands. Daniel Boston Marshall's father was Daniel Marshall as part of the first original church body on his lands of Messongo Village and American Black's on the North side of the main Homestead. He came from the Seperate Baptist in Sandy Creek, N.C. as mentioned on the computer site "FactMonster" as well as being part of the group from New England.(1755 Era). The Anglican Church folks ordered a burn out of that group as well as punishment. That you can pull out of the Chancelors report in Accomack County.About 15 years later , Who arrives? Elijah Baker with Mr. Elliott onto our land. Baptist preachers talking about Gods word on a tree stump! Wow. Now, the wind turns because they came from another group of Baptist near the Virginia-North Carolina's border of todays terms, and an Area South of Petersburg, Va.. To my understanding they were of the Old Regular Baptist faith and conviction. Now, also Guess who else arrives on the North end of the plantation? Francis Makemie, a preacher landing with a 16 foot sail boat from Ireland. He starts the first Presbyternism movement--then the Calvary of William Penn's militia arrest him and some of his ordained ministers within a year and imprisoned on an Island that can be visited today--Hog Island, Del.. I just got so excited about Frogmans OP that it fit well with our second group of God's ordained squatters. Anyway, Francis Makemie is buried not far from our farm house. The Baptist preachers, again the Kings government did not allow us that information. But Accomack still boastes of it Debtors cells and buildings of those held in imprisonment of the past. Bye.

 

[old regular]

Twin Creek Association

The Twin Creek Association used the name Old Regular Baptist in 1850 New Salem in 1892.Early Ky churches also called themselves Regular Baptist most of these went into the Union between Regular and Separate Baptist and took the name United, after this Union fell apart many took the name Regular Baptist , when some of the Regular Baptist went along with the mission boards, they changed their names to Regular Primitive and Old Regular Baptist, these were not the first churches to use these terms, as they had been used prior on the East Coast, and Regular Baptist in Wales.These bodies were all related, and many of todays members came from families,that had belonged to these early churches.Brother Mike Slone

 

[abonmarche']

[Old Regular Baptist in 1850 New Salem in 1892.Early Ky churches also called themselves Regular Baptist] Thank you for the encourgement about name changes especially the years between 1850 and 1892. Those times were really tough on churches and it members. I am sure Kentucky had the same problem that the Eastern Shore had on the Citizens and goverment vasculating back and forth between direction they participated in during the Civil War periods including leading up to it as well as after it. At Messongo Village, we had the largest cannery in America so we thought. It sputtered along for 24/7 as well as into the WWI and part of WWII. Steamboats poured in and out of that place. Now it isolated and abandoned today. These times also affected the man's spirit as well as tearing up families. These folks are created by God and we are all flesh. The Government does not realize this at times. Yes churches changed, Yes folks died, Yes, new preachers came, Yes doctrines changed, Yes some of the oldies somehow kept their position regardless of the WAYS our Country went. And they never lost their faith. They kept Eph. 8:9&10 Grace and vs 10 They are his works. 1stCorth5:10 They lived by the Word of God. They were sustained by God. 1John 1:9 They confess their sins. They in 1cor. 3:16 became the Temple of God. And now they Rest in the lambs bossom until the trumphet of the Judgement in Rev. Why? Because Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is BAPTISZED "Shall" be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Hello, this is not me speaking. It is God's words. A Baptist job is that Issue. Amen. Bye.

 

[Bethelassoc]

When you think about it, there aren't any clear lines when trying to decipher by the name of the baptist denomination. Regular, of course, was a distinct term back then, as it is today, but like United, it became generic in some ways.

It's also not hard to imagine, I guess, the term being used as "old" Regular, even on the Eastern Shore. It can be quite possible that a person was known as an old Regular in faith and practice. Old is an easy moniker to add, just like there are some that are called "Old" United, but it's not really defining their name as that, just that they held to it for so long, or are old fashioned.

But after the union, one thing that I would say became universal, was the union changed what the old names meant from that point on. What I mean is we look at the general union and how after so much time, some associations reverted back to their original names but they truly weren't the same coming out as they were going in.

What we see is, ironically, that most Old Regulars can trace their roots back to one association, South Kentucky Association of Separate Baptists. The influence is there, whether we understand it or not, accept it or not. The Regulars of the 1700s were not exactly the same as the Regulars of the 1800s. The same principle holds for the Separates.

I believe that there was a refining period that changed some of these churches and associations from then on. Separate influence on the Regulars and vice versa.

Just some thoughts,

David

 

[abonmarche']

Dave, Would you believe that the Baptist on the Eastern Shore of Virginia have multiplied itself into about 33 churches and one Association called Accomack. They are all packed in an area of 20 miles wide and 40 miles "deep", Shore talk for a North-South direction. Like a sailor talk that you are packing deep when sailing Nothernly or Southernly. Of course at a diaginal to the wind and waves. It is a mixture now-some for Whites, Blacks, Hispanic, Porta-Ricans (nick name) Irish, English (Islanders), The new breeds (New Yorkers and Jersey folks) and when I called the different churches--they do not know. I need to speak to Joe the Historian. They are just attend folks. Sorry, I could not help you. But the old original are still have that dress code and other things similar to what Frogman was talking and sharing on his OP#1. God bless. Bye

 

[convicted1]

I have a question for all the ORBs in here...others can answer as well, if they know the answer to the question. Is there an ORB association that doesn't believe in the 'TRAVAIL' or as the old timers called 'TRAVEL' or use lined songs in their service? The reason I asked this question is because I have grown up in the Sardis association and have some minutes from a few other associations and they seem to all believe in the travail, but there are several other associations I know nothing about. I don't know if all others use lining as their form of singing, either. Please let me know through this thread or by PMing me. Thanks!!

 

[old regular]

Lined Singing

All that have'' Old ''before Regular Baptist have some form of lined singing,the Friendship most likely has least amount of lined singing, Stephens Chapel in the Mountain Valley Association sings most of their songs straight through.All Old Regular Baptist Associations believe in a travail,as far as I know, they differ on points concerning it. Brother Mike Slone

 

[abonmarche']

{{others can answer as well, if they know the answer to the question. Is there an ORB association that doesn't believe in the 'TRAVAIL' or as the old timers called 'TRAVEL' or use lined songs in their service? The reason I asked this question is because I have grown up in the Sardis association and have some minutes from a few other associations and they seem to all believe in the travail, but there are several other associations I know nothing about. I don't know if all others use lining as their form of singing,}}

Dear Brethern in Christ, I was thinking of letting this OP go bye-bye. But I can not because of "Colossians 3:23" that I am bound to DO. Paul tell US that: " In verse 23 And whatsover YOU DO, DO IT heartly, as to the LORD, and not unto men;"

First: Let us see what the dictionary says about "Travel and Travail", this sets a basis of issue. Travel=To keep or be in company associate, to journey over or thru or an act of traveling. An ACT is mental or work called singing. Next is Travail=Strenuous mental or physical (using body muscles to make noise with mouth and jaws and tongue) or tribulation or agony, anguish process (mental or physical). Therefore TRAVAIL or TRAVEL is correct in this singing. 2nd college edition of the American Heritage Dictionary source.

But what do others say about this type of singing or is it singing? Opps I am out of posting room. I will continue on next post. Bye.

 

[abonmarche']

Dear Brethern in Christ, Because of "Colossians 3:23" that I am bound to DO. Paul tell US that: " In verse 23 And whatsover YOU DO, DO IT heartly, as to the LORD, and not unto men;"

I continue my posting about Travail and Travel singing. I can only share my past history about the Baptist Churches that started on the EasternShore of Virginia.

Baker and Elliott came from the Seperate Baptist in Sandy Creek, N.C. as mentioned on the computer site "FactMonster" as well as being part of the group from New England.(1755 Era). These two men started the first Baptist church in Messongo, Virginia. The question is, what did they bring with them. What was Baptist influence at that time. Let us talk about the SINGING because we know they taught the WORD of GOD. They were influenced by the Roman Catholic Churches and the Anglican churches at that time of Smyth pull away and issues of baptisim and other issues. The priest sang doxologies and canticles to these folks. That they took these methods with them to the Colonial Americas lands. These tunes were NOT metrical as we hear songs over the radio and television or operas of todays time.
Let us look at one of these Ancient Hymns and Canticles also know by the Roman Catholic churches as "Te Deum Laudamus" and when was it written and a very important issue IS allowed by the King of England to sing these things to the LORD on the KING's lands. Hello? The Kings lands at that TIME in Colonial America's. It was composed by Henry Lawes (1595-1662). 1st verse is " We praise Thee O God; we acknowledge Thee to be the Lord. King allowed this song of praise to be sung at a "SO" to a "DOE" tone only. But most important is that none of these songs Identify the LORD Jesus or his name? Why? Let us look at 200 years later what the King of England allowed to be sung on his lands. A song by the King of England approval on Colonial soil is by Henry Smart, (1813-1879) called Magnificat;1st verse: "My soul doth magni--fy the Lord,--- pause---and my spirit hath re joiced in God my Saviour." What happened to word Jesus as the saviour in this song? What people do not understand is---( Oh please not the "Clinton-Monolowinski" is)-- how a government can seduce the Seed planted on rock be swept away so quickly.
In Eph 2:5-6 the word says: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ by grace YOU are Saved---And hath raised us up together and made us (YOU) sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. So again I applaude the Baptist Churches of standing in Christ Jesus today and this Board for education of the unknowns.Love to the Bretherens in Christ Jesus. Bye.

 

[old regular]

Old School Baptist fellowship meeting

The Old School Baptist Fellowship Meeting will be at the Mt.Zion Old Regular Baptist Church State Route 309 near Ada , Ohio behind the roadside rest.It is a meeting in which different groups of Old Baptist hold services, in order to hear each other preach and sing, there are usually Old Regular,United and Primitive Baptist and other who have interest in Old School Baptist attend.The meeting starts on Friday at 1p.m EST on March 30th, And 10a.m on March 31st and goes all day then again on April 1st. Those in need of details and arrangements may call Bro. David Charles at [614]-878-2797. All are invited Elder Slone

 

[Bro. James Reed]

The Old School Baptist Fellowship Meeting will be at the Mt.Zion Old Regular Baptist Church State Route 309 near Ada , Ohio behind the roadside rest.It is a meeting in which different groups of Old Baptist hold services, in order to hear each other preach and sing, there are usually Old Regular,United and Primitive Baptist and other who have interest in Old School Baptist attend.The meeting starts on Friday at 1p.m EST on March 30th, And 10a.m on March 31st and goes all day then again on April 1st. Those in need of details and arrangements may call Bro. David Charles at [614]-878-2797. All are invited Elder Slone

Move it to Texas next year and I'd love to go.:thumbs:

I hope it's a very spirit-filled meeting.

Bro. James

 

[convicted1]

RE: Old Regular Baptist(Revised

I wouldn't doubt if we don't have a church that practices using olive oil but if they do we don't know for sure. I never seen oil used either. I have heard of it but never seen it.

Brother Bob,

I have witnessed the use of oil in the Laying on of hands in church services, but not in the ORBs. I used to go to an Old Zion church-Little Home- and they were more Old United than the other Old Zion churches were. They sang like the Old Zion-Freewills, but they didn't have the 'alter calls' and they believed in the travail, nor did they preach a fall from grace, like the other churches in Old Zion did. But when someone wanted to have the members to lay hands on them, they would put one drop of extra-virgin olive oil on the tip of their finger, rub it across their forehead, and then pray over them. I also witnessed this in a church just above me, as well. They tended to be quite arminian in that they have alter calls/begging...same thing to me, and they had the freewill type singing as well. I hope this sheds a little light on the oil used in the laying on of hands.

 

[convicted1]

RE:Old Regular Baptist(revised)

It has been at least 8 years or more since I have attended this church, so I don't know if Little Home still has the same practices. I have been to a few Old Zion churches, and with the exception of Little Home, the one I went to, all had alter calls/begging, and preached a fall from grace. I even went to one that preached the apostasy of Christ!!

I know that Little Home has a new pastor, but I don't know how they look at things nowadays. I know that this may not be in-line with baptist history, but....

 

[abonmarche']

the one I went to, all had alter calls/begging, and preached a fall from grace. I even went to one that preached the apostasy of Christ!!

I know that this may not be in-line with baptist history,
but....

Why are you applogizing? This is history. It is a process that folks need to go thru as ordained by Scripture. Do not forget to read my postings about the backwardness of these folks living on American Soil and still living in "FEAR" of changing from the old King of Englands orders as reinforced by the Government of that area. It is called a Commonwealth. What is a Commonwealth? It is a local government controling folks like YOU and ME for the good of the government. NOT people of followers of Jesus Christ.

I believe that Apostasy of Christ explaines to folks the rebellious heart, they are revolting and gone (Jer. 5:23) Look what history to folks of time of Hos. 5:2 and the revoldter are profound to make slaughter... Woow! What good news of being warned by our preachers and the word of GOD. We are sheep!


I think it is wonderful and history making that folks are being Revived. {{Calls and beggings...fall from grace...}} 1 Kings 17:22 the soul ..came into him again and he was revived.. as well as some of those in bondages...Ezra9:8 and give us a little revive in our bondage...Hos. 6:2 after two days will he revive us; in the third day... as well as in the New Testament--Romans 7:9 the commandment came, sin revive, and I died....This is for those who did not accept Jesus Christ as saviour..Notice: history of someone in the making of a NEW spirit in vs 11at same Romans 7--For sin taking occasion by the commandment, decieved me, and by it slew me. as well as vs 14 ...but I am carnal, sold under sin. Again I applaude this site to educate those in becoming better Saints in Jesus Christ and all those to remind us of our down falls. That is history. Your brethern in Christ Jesus. Bye.

 

[convicted1]

RE: Old Regular Baptist(revised)

To ALL ORB's that post on here....I have one question. What would it take to make it possible for all the 16 or 17 ORB associations to "correspond" with each other? I would love to see the day when all of these associations would agree to come together, and preach, sing, commune together. I pray that God makes a way, if it be His will. Please respond to this!

 

[herjeep]

wow, very informative and interesting. I'm learning so much, and I grew up Baptist.

 

[old regular]

Orb

Dear Convicted the best way for all ORB's to get correspondence back would return to their original form of goverment, that associations are an advisory councils only2. return to their original doctrinal boundries as set by the New Salem 3. come to some agreement on practice and order 4 quit excluding members for going to other Old Regular Baptist churches outside of their chain of correspondence, this is nothing more than a control, (I am talking about visiting, not communion or anything else.5. call a truce, forgive on each other their trespasses.6 talk to one another in love,7. quit building walls and making up rules, like everyone that left our association has to be rebaptized to return. 8. use the Bible only, not what old brother so and so says about it. A kingdom divided can not stand!! In Love Elder Michael Slone

 

[convicted1]

RE: Old Regular Baptist(revised)

Brother Mike,

I totally agree with what you posted, but when you let the "flesh" get in the way, this is where the trouble begins. I would love(and I pray) for the day when all ORBS will come together and lay aside their "differences" and get along and worship Him! He is what salvation is all about. Take care and may God bless. BTW, I wanted to put this back to the top, so that this thread may keep going along!!

 

[convicted1]

RE: Old Regular Baptist(Revised)

I was just wondering, where did the saturday business meeting come from? I know that the ORBs and some of the old line United Baptists do this. Is this because of the once a month meetings? Some of the "modern" United Baptists that have church at the same church every week, don't do the saturday business meetings. So, what is the history of the saturday meeting? Who originated it? Any and all answers are welcomed.

Willis

 

[Brother Bob]

The problem is we and I will include myself, want everyone else to quit what they are doing that we do not agree with and they want us to quit what we are doing that they do not agree with. Remember when Paul and Barnabus went different ways, or we can go back farther than that, remember when Abraham and Lot went their separate ways, well it is still going on today. Jesus will fix it for us one day.

BBob,