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Old Testament, New Testament

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Michael Wrenn

New Member
It's a simple yes or no question. How can I trick you?

If you believe Jesus is God, then you should have no problem accepting what God did in the OT. So I don't understand your problem with God extinguishing entire populations.

Forgive me if I am unjustly suspicious of motives, but I have reason to be so on this forum, considering some of what's been directed at me.

Simply because it does not reflect who Jesus was and what He taught. If Jesus is the perfect image of God, how can the Sermon on the Mount, for instance, be reconciled with how God is presented in some places in the OT? It can't.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Forgive me if I am unjustly suspicious of motives, but I have reason to be so on this forum, considering some of what's been directed at me.

Simply because it does not reflect who Jesus was and what He taught. If Jesus is the perfect image of God, how can the Sermon on the Mount, for instance, be reconciled with how God is presented in some places in the OT? It can't.[/QUOTE]

Well this is why agreement is not possible to agree with someone who denies what is clearly written.....your god does not do what the biblical God does.
Believers can and do reconcile all the passages....not cut out and remove what we do not approve of.
An open denial of the word ...leads to an open denial of the person who denies it.

This is just the same objection as Olsen wrote.....to him the biblical God is a monster:thumbs:

26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
 
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TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
Simply because it does not reflect who Jesus was and what He taught. If Jesus is the perfect image of God, how can the Sermon on the Mount, for instance, be reconciled with how God is presented in some places in the OT? It can't.

I would guess that you would not like this statement of Jesus then:

Luke 19:27
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me. NIV
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Forgive me if I am unjustly suspicious of motives, but I have reason to be so on this forum, considering some of what's been directed at me.

Simply because it does not reflect who Jesus was and what He taught. If Jesus is the perfect image of God, how can the Sermon on the Mount, for instance, be reconciled with how God is presented in some places in the OT? It can't.[/QUOTE]

Well this is why agreement is not possible to agree with someone who denies what is clearly written.....your god does not do what the biblical God does.
Believers can and do reconcile all the passages....not cut out and remove what we do not approve of.
An open denial of the word ...leads to an open denial of the person who denies it.

This is just the same objection as Olsen wrote.....to him the biblical God is a monster:thumbs:

26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

That is a misrepresentation and a lie.

Can you reconcile the Sermon on the Mount with a god who exterminates entire populations? You may try, but you cannot.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
I would guess that you would not like this statement of Jesus then:

Luke 19:27
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me. NIV

Ah, and typical of people like you -- you don't even tell the truth when quoting scripture. Jesus was telling a parable of a nobleman, and these were the nobleman's words in the parable.
 

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
I admit that I haven't read through all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating something already mentioned:

But I'd like to know what some of you "fundamentalist" types think of the NT passages which clearly 'correct' or 'give a more full perspective' of the OT ways of thinking?

Examples:

1. I used to call you servants but now I call you friends. (John 15:15)
2. You've heard it said...but I say... (sermon on the mount)
3. Love your enemy, do good to those who hate you.
4. Let him without sin cast the first stone.

That is a good start...
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
No. I don't want a Creed. I want YOU to state what YOU believe in your own words.

Oh, dear; my affirmation of the Nicene Creed is stating what I believe.

But going out of my way to satisfy you... yes, I believe Jesus Christ is God, not 'a' god, and I believe Jesus Christ created the universe. Now, I said Jesus Christ
instead of just Jesus or Christ so maybe you won't say I'm dividing Him into two separate natures.
 

TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
Ah, and typical of people like you -- you don't even tell the truth when quoting scripture. Jesus was telling a parable of a nobleman, and these were the nobleman's words in the parable.

Let's take a look at it and see.

Jesus was nearing Jerusalem and some were expecting the kingdom to be restored then. He told the parable in response to that.

Luke 19:11-27
11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’ 14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’
18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’
20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’
22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’
24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
Jesus was telling them what was going to happen. Jesus is the nobleman, the disciples are his servants, and the subjects that rejected him are the Jews - He came unto His own and they did not receive Him. Those that rejected Him were indeed destroyed - 70 AD ring a bell? It also points out to the final judgement where Jesus ultimately destroys all His enemies. Satan with his fallen angels and those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life are thrown into the lake of fire.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Let's take a look at it and see.

Jesus was nearing Jerusalem and some were expecting the kingdom to be restored then. He told the parable in response to that.


Jesus was telling them what was going to happen. Jesus is the nobleman, the disciples are his servants, and the subjects that rejected him are the Jews - He came unto His own and they did not receive Him. Those that rejected Him were indeed destroyed - 70 AD ring a bell? It also points out to the final judgement where Jesus ultimately destroys all His enemies. Satan with his fallen angels and those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life are thrown into the lake of fire.

Ah, but you are mixing things and times up. True, after the judgment, the enemies of God and Jesus will be justly dealt with. But you still cannot reconcile and harmonize the Sermon on the Mount with the blood lust that you perceive to be part of the character of God as shown in some places in the Old Testament.
 

TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
Ah, but you are mixing things and times up. True, after the judgment, the enemies of God and Jesus will be justly dealt with. But you still cannot reconcile and harmonize the Sermon on the Mount with the blood lust that you perceive to be part of the character of God as shown in some places in the Old Testament.

No, I am not. But it is you that sees God as being filled with blood-lust in the OT - I don't see it that way. :type:
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
No, I am not. But it is you that sees God as being filled with blood-lust in the OT - I don't see it that way. :type:

Okay, I'll accept that, and I am sorry if I accused you of something that you don't hold.

But, you see, I don't believe the God of the Old Testament was filled with blood-lust. I do, however, believe some of his claimed representatives were -- just like some today are.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
That is a misrepresentation and a lie.

Can you reconcile the Sermon on the Mount with a god who exterminates entire populations? You may try, but you cannot.

Yes I can as can all christians. [snipped--- inflammatory]
with the blood lust that you perceive to be part of the character of God as shown in some places in the Old Testament.
. ....so you have invented your own.....The God of Jn 3;16 also said;

32Remember Lot's wife.


No one rejoices in the destruction of the wicked. God takes no pleasure in it....but they will be destroyed quite justly for their sins.

IF you feel quoting from your friends article is a mis-representation....show how. I did not want to post the whole article so as to expose people to that error.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I admit that I haven't read through all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating something already mentioned:

But I'd like to know what some of you "fundamentalist" types think of the NT passages which clearly 'correct' or 'give a more full perspective' of the OT ways of thinking?

Examples:

1. I used to call you servants but now I call you friends. (John 15:15)
2. You've heard it said...but I say... (sermon on the mount)
3. Love your enemy, do good to those who hate you.
4. Let him without sin cast the first stone.

That is a good start...

Did you read the article offered in the original post?????? The writer does not believe in a whole bible....the article is not long....take a look,,,,
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Yes I can as can all christians.You do not like the biblical God, even now in this post your hatred of Him comes across quite clearly. ....so you have invented your own.....The God of Jn 3;16 also said;


That is a lie from the pit of hell, and you are treading on dangerous ground by spreading it. You had better be careful; God will not let you continue to bear false witness against me. You have been warned. If you do continue, your day of reckoning is coming. I should be sorry to see it, but right now I'm not feeling sorry. You have posted more vile lies about me than anyone here.



No one rejoices in the destruction of the wicked. God takes no pleasure in it....but they will be destroyed quite justly for their sins.

IF you feel quoting from your friends article is a mis-representation....show how. I did not want to post the whole article so as to expose people to that error.

As I have said, my God is the Father of Jesus Christ; I don't know who your god is.
 
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