It is racist to label a people group racist based on their skin color which is what crt does. And there is no systemic racism. Crt makes judgments based on people groups rather than individuals. Marxism 101its pure evil. Its certainly not a conservative nor a biblical value. Its a myth intended to gain power rather than to right a wrong.
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On the incompatibility of structural racism and Oppression with the Baptist Faith and Message
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
If you are interested in the issue, The Color of Compromise is a fair minded, evenhanded look at structural racism and the church. If you don’t want to look at the issue and continue the way you have, don’t worry about it.
If you or your church have a RightNow account, you can watch the video series here.
If you or your church have a RightNow account, you can watch the video series here.
Here is a solid take on crt if one is willing to listen
“Why I hate critical race theory”
EXCEPT FROM INTRODUCTION TO THE COLOR OF COMPROMISE:
Why The Color of Compromise May Be Hard to Read
The long history of racism reveals that certain people will object to the very premise of this book. The notion that racism has colored the character of the American church for the past four hundred years will seem incomprehensible to some. As a result, they will voice strenuous and, typically, very public opposition to the claims that racism, especially in its systemic and institutional manifestations, has shaped the church. These individuals are often Christians themselves, but they are not uniformly white; such attitudes cut across the racial and ethnic spectrum. The people who will reject this book will level several common objections. What stands out about these complaints is not their originality or persuasiveness but their ubiquity throughout history. The same arguments that perpetuated racial inequality in decades past get recycled in the present day. Critics will assert that the ideas in The Color of Compromise should be disregarded because they are too “liberal.” They will claim that a Marxist Communist ideology underlies all the talk about racial equality. They will contend that such an extended discussion of racism reduces black people to a state of helplessness and a “victim mentality.” They will try to point to counterexamples and say that racists do not represent the “real” American church. They will assert that the historical facts are wrong or have been misinterpreted. They will charge that this discussion of race is somehow “abandoning the gospel” and replacing it with problematic calls for “social justice.” After reading just a few chapters, these arguments will sound familiar. These arguments have been used throughout the American church’s history to deny or defend racism. Other books more pointedly respond to the ways people attempt to explain away or deflect claims of racism. In this book the stories themselves tell the tale of racial oppression. It is up to the reader to determine whether the weight of historical evidence proves that the American church has been complicit with racism.
…
The goal of this book is not guilt. The purpose of tracing Christian complicity with racism is not to show white believers how bad they are. It is simply a fact of American history that white leaders and laity made decisions to maintain the racist status quo. Even though the purpose of this work is not to call out any particular racial group, these words may cause some grief, but grief can be good. In 2 Corinthians 7:10, Paul says, “For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret” (ESV). This kind of grief is a natural response to the suffering of others. It indicates empathy with the pain that racism has caused black people. The ability to weep with those who weep is necessary for true healing. Though the work of racial justice is difficult and will never truly end in this life, God has provided a colorful portrait of the goal. In a cosmic case of beginning with the end in mind, God pulls back the curtain of eternity to provide a glimpse of future glory. Revelation 7:9 says, “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” In that heavenly congregation, we will finally see the culmination of God’s gathering a diverse people unified by faith in Christ. We will not all be white; we will not all be black. We will surround the throne of the Lamb as a redeemed picture of all the ethnic and cultural diversity God created. Our skin color will no longer be a source of pain or arrogant pride but will serve as a multihued reflection of God’s image. We will no longer be alienated by our earthly economic or social position. We will not clamor for power over one another. Our single focus will be worshiping God for eternity in sublime fellowship with each other and our Creator.
— Tisby, Jemar. The Color of Compromise (pp. 20-23). Zondervan
Why The Color of Compromise May Be Hard to Read
The long history of racism reveals that certain people will object to the very premise of this book. The notion that racism has colored the character of the American church for the past four hundred years will seem incomprehensible to some. As a result, they will voice strenuous and, typically, very public opposition to the claims that racism, especially in its systemic and institutional manifestations, has shaped the church. These individuals are often Christians themselves, but they are not uniformly white; such attitudes cut across the racial and ethnic spectrum. The people who will reject this book will level several common objections. What stands out about these complaints is not their originality or persuasiveness but their ubiquity throughout history. The same arguments that perpetuated racial inequality in decades past get recycled in the present day. Critics will assert that the ideas in The Color of Compromise should be disregarded because they are too “liberal.” They will claim that a Marxist Communist ideology underlies all the talk about racial equality. They will contend that such an extended discussion of racism reduces black people to a state of helplessness and a “victim mentality.” They will try to point to counterexamples and say that racists do not represent the “real” American church. They will assert that the historical facts are wrong or have been misinterpreted. They will charge that this discussion of race is somehow “abandoning the gospel” and replacing it with problematic calls for “social justice.” After reading just a few chapters, these arguments will sound familiar. These arguments have been used throughout the American church’s history to deny or defend racism. Other books more pointedly respond to the ways people attempt to explain away or deflect claims of racism. In this book the stories themselves tell the tale of racial oppression. It is up to the reader to determine whether the weight of historical evidence proves that the American church has been complicit with racism.
…
The goal of this book is not guilt. The purpose of tracing Christian complicity with racism is not to show white believers how bad they are. It is simply a fact of American history that white leaders and laity made decisions to maintain the racist status quo. Even though the purpose of this work is not to call out any particular racial group, these words may cause some grief, but grief can be good. In 2 Corinthians 7:10, Paul says, “For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret” (ESV). This kind of grief is a natural response to the suffering of others. It indicates empathy with the pain that racism has caused black people. The ability to weep with those who weep is necessary for true healing. Though the work of racial justice is difficult and will never truly end in this life, God has provided a colorful portrait of the goal. In a cosmic case of beginning with the end in mind, God pulls back the curtain of eternity to provide a glimpse of future glory. Revelation 7:9 says, “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” In that heavenly congregation, we will finally see the culmination of God’s gathering a diverse people unified by faith in Christ. We will not all be white; we will not all be black. We will surround the throne of the Lamb as a redeemed picture of all the ethnic and cultural diversity God created. Our skin color will no longer be a source of pain or arrogant pride but will serve as a multihued reflection of God’s image. We will no longer be alienated by our earthly economic or social position. We will not clamor for power over one another. Our single focus will be worshiping God for eternity in sublime fellowship with each other and our Creator.
— Tisby, Jemar. The Color of Compromise (pp. 20-23). Zondervan
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Anything that takes the focus off Christ and the gospel of salvation by grace (which this does by focusing on lawsuits and social justice) is misguided at best.
BTW, I have also stated Christians looking to further positions on abortion or marriage by looking to secular courts are also misguided.
peace to you
BTW, I have also stated Christians looking to further positions on abortion or marriage by looking to secular courts are also misguided.
peace to you
Discipleship is not a shift of focus from the gospel. It is part of salvation. If one is in a discipling relationship with Jesus, then justice will be a concern. If one is not in a discipling relationship with Jesus, it is due to either a nonbiblical reduction of the gospel of Jesus to a theory of the atonement, or a lack of entering into a saving relationship with Christ in the first place.
Anyone who has been "saved" will deeply desire to be a disciple, even if they don't know how to do it because of a lack of teaching.
So the Gospel now is time to get woke up?
And if black Christians would address the falseness of the Blm and other socialist groups, eh?
There has been just as much racism in black America as in white america!
if you doubt that, just look at how much crapola was and is spewed at conservative blacks such as Justice Thomas among black america!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Anyone who is saved will deeply desire to share the love of Christ through proclaiming the gospel.
I don’t want to shift the focus of Christian discipleship to social justice lawsuits and pursuing secular laws which is exactly what this does.
peace to you
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Critics will assert that the ideas in The Color of Compromise should be disregarded because they are too “liberal.” They will claim that a Marxist Communist ideology underlies all the talk about racial equality.
Valid history of how racism has influenced churches, and how churches have influenced racism, is valid, meaning both supposed facts and perceptions on all sides are subject to review.
However, none of it will validate attempts to undermine every area of society via cultural Marxism. These are two separate issues. Allowing the latter into churches is anathema.
Critics of The Color of Compromise may well be entirely correct that its ideas are precisely what the author indirectly admits, namely that they are founded on Marxist Communist ideology.
The question to answer is this: Where and how does he actually repudiate the influence of Marxist Communist ideology, and especially Critical Race Theory, in the discussion?
What is false about the statement, "Black Lives Matter"?
The majority of people involved in BLM marches are religious people who do not share the views of the ones who run the BLM website.
I'm assuming you are a white person. Have you specifically addressed the 'falseness' of white supremacy in our culture? Have you condemned the white supremacists at the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville a few years ago? Have you condemned the white supremacist violence and rhetoric in your own community? There's plenty of it out there, for instance, in a community near my home.
He is talking about STRUCTURAL racism, not necessarily personal racist beliefs. White persons seem to assume racism is simply a matter of the heart, but it is also a cultural ill of society, law, and history. Just as Christians interact with our culture to be advocates for pro-life concerns (also a social, legal, and historical matter), Christians my seek to do justice for those who are born into systems of disadvantage and oppression. The love of neighbor requires it, even if we didn't have so much scripture specifically calling for justice for the oppressed.
If you claim it is not a "gospel" matter, then you also need to say that to those who oppose abortion based on their Christian beliefs.
Why do you assume it is all about lawsuits? That's a caricature of what is involved in social justice advocacy.
Seems to me that most around here happily toss away this deeply held conviction when it comes to the issue of abortion. In fact, a number of people around here categorically state that, no matter what, one cannot be a Christian and vote for a Democrat because it might help legally support abortion.
If I stated that, no matter what, one cannot be a Christian and not be an advocate for social justice (not specifically tied to any political party or other political viewpoint), quite a few people here would try to have be banished for saying such a thing.
Why do you think that is so?
I have NEVER owned a Black slave, not have I intentionally spoken out against any black person except against their policies, so why should there be the ole "critical race: myth taught?
Why does BLM matter. and yet when Jews are attacked, as they now are being even here in USA, quiet as a church mouse among the Woke activists and politicians?
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
So now, according to your worldview, an organization equates to a "statement"? BLM is not a "statement," nor is it a "website."
"Black Lives Matter" is a Black Supremacist Marxist organization bent on undermining America morally, politically, and economically. Participating in their activism is supporting their anti-America agenda. It is possible that many are being deceived rather than deceiving.
Should Christians Support Black Lives Matter?
Have you owned any other kind of slave?
Seriously, you are looking at this VERY personally. Once more, we are talking primarily about STRUCTURAL racism, not personal racism.
I have, but it wasn't about the level of melanin in their skin.
Again, this is not necessarily about personal activities.
My black friends don't have "policies." However, I suspect you are talking about Obama and other politicians.
CRT is not "taught," it is conversation about the ways that ethnicity, culture, politics, and law intersect.
I'm not so much pushing for CRT as I am trying to get people to understand the issues. That's why I recommended The Color of Compromise. It is from a Christian perspective, integrated scripture and history to tell the story of systemic racism. Until you understand that there is an issue, you will wonder why people are trying to resolve the issue.
Can you name a widely-reported incident where black persons have not expressed sympathy for the victims of anti-Semitic attacks? Please be specific.
Sure, and that's one of the purposes of the book.
(1) He doesn't use "cultural Marxism" in the book. He uses the Bible and history that anyone can validate.
(2) Even wrong ideas are built on strands of truth. Just because a "cultural Marxist" might say something, doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong.
(3) For the record, Jemar Tisby is not a Marxist, "cultural" or philosophical.
The author DOES NOT "admit" anything of the sort. He's just pointing out that historically, that's an accusation that is thrown out at any discussion of systematic racism. The sentence I quoted is the ONLY mention of Marxism in the book, and he's using it to point out that people will refuse to read and consider the issue because they are told it is Marxism.
(1) He does not "repudiate the influence of Marxist Communist(sic) ideology" since his book is not about that issue. It is a survey of scripture and the history of evangelicalism regarding systemic racism.
(2) He makes no mention of CRT in the book. It is simply not about that.