Originally posted by ascund:
Greetings
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by riverm:
1 John 2:24 contains the word IF. This means that God’s love of giving us eternal life is conditional. IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you.
Well - not exactly. This is a first class conditional which assumes the truth of the statement. Hence, John is certain that his readership will abide and will remain and will continue in Jesus Christ. Here is where knowledge of Greek is vital.</font>[/QUOTE]The New Testament is filled with conditional statements.
Your claims about I John 2:24 are not supported by the many scholars who translated various versions.
I John 2 :24 (NIV)
See that what you have heard from the beginning
remains in you.
If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
(NAS) 24As for you,
let that
abide in you which you heard from the beginning.
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
(KJV)24
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning.
If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
(NKJV)24 Therefore
let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning.
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
(ESV)24
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Things Children of God Can Do:
1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
Christian are told;
...be steadfast immovable: 1 Cor 15:58
...If these qualities are yours...2 Pe 1:5-11
...we will reap if we do not grow weary: Gal 6:9
...be faithful unto death and I will give crown of life: Rev 2:10
...practice these things and God will be with you: Phil 4:9
I Cor 15:2 - By this gospel you are saved,
if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you
have believed in vain.
Wow, this refutes both OSAS and faith only.
How is it possible to "have believed in vain"?
II Pet 2:20-23, "For if, after they have
escaped the defilements of the world
through the knowledge of our
Lord and
Savior Jesus Christ, they are
again entangled in them and overcome, the
last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been
better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the
sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."
How could the last state be worse than the first state, before they even knew the way of righteousness?
They escaped through the Savior and are later entangled again, but it would have been better for them to never know righteousness than to turn from it. This is so plain.
It takes serious mental gymnastics to ignore or try and explain this away.