Originally posted by Briguy:
Number one no one answered my question in reference to when in the process of disobeying do we go fro saved to un-saved.
Since we are not the judge and only God knows the heart, I think it would be presumptious on anyone's part to declare when one went from a saved condition to a lost condition.
With that said, let me give my thoughts according to the scriptures.
First, lets look at I Pet 2:20-22, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been
better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."
There are several things to notice. First, they have escaped the defilements of the world through Jesus Christ.
They know the way of righteousness, then turn from it.
Where did they go from saved to lost? From this passage, I would say when they were "again entangled in them and
overcome".
If once saved always saved were true,
it would never be "better for them NEVER to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them".
The parable of the sower also shows that one can receive the word then only endure for a little while. Matt 13:20-23 "But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
James 5:19-20, "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."
What do you think it means, "wander from the truth"? What is the result of wandering form the truth? Death is the result. What kind of death? Physical or spiritual? Our soul can only be saved from one kind of death, and that is eternal separation from God or spiritual death.
Romans 11, Heb 6, and every passage that is conditional such as "Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall." - II Pet 1:10
It would be useless to commend someone to be diligent to do something that was 100% certain, don't you think? If we do those things, we can have full confidence and assurance.
What if you don't practice those things? The obvious answer is "you can fall and your calling and election are no longer sure".
Believe it or not, I agree with most of what you say. We are righteous because God declares us to be. We don't earn it, never have, never will. I could not, even in a thousand years of dedicated service, earn any righteousness or justification. Justification by faith is an undeniable fact of the New Testament. Heb 11 gives example after example of pleasing faith.
Heb 11:30, by faith, the walls of Jericho fell. Their actions were not thought up by the people. No, God told them what to do. I'm sure it didn't make any sense to them, but the obeyed. Did their actions in any way earn the reward? Of course not. They were not actions of merit, they were actions of obedient faith. If they were actions of merit, then God would "owe" it to anyone who performed those same actions today.
The people obeyed and the walls fell down, or as the Hebrew writer says, "By faith the walls of Jericho fell down". The same principle applies today. My actions do not earn me anything! God declares me righteous.
James 2 tells us, "You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"-- and he was called a friend of God."
We don't have to wonder when the scripture was fulfilled, because James tells us.
