Daniel David
New Member
According to Paul in Romans 4, assurance is an aspect of saving faith. If you do not believe in eternal security, you are lost.
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Originally posted by massdak:
in looking for a church you should stay away from any church that believe that you can loose your salvation, in fact those that believe this are believing in a false gospel. any type of religion that has one believe they need to do works or good works or any type of self keeping of their own salvation is a gospel of works. beware of those who will lead you into a religion as this, for if one truly believes that they are not eternally secure in Christ then they are not saved. [/QUOTE
Excelllent post 'dak. This is the control that cults and false religions have over their adherents: "If you don't stay in line, you'll be lost." When you are in Christ, you are not part of a plan, but part of a MAN. The Lord Jesus will never lose part of His body.
Not true. Someone can be born again and not understand anything about eternal security and they are still saved. They are just wrong about this aspect of the teachings of the Bible. As a matter of fact, someone can be saved and then be wrong about many things that the bible teaches and still belong to God. To say that someone must believe in eternal security in order to be saved is the same as adding to the requirements needed for salvation in the first place.Originally posted by Daniel David:
According to Paul in Romans 4, assurance is an aspect of saving faith. If you do not believe in eternal security, you are lost.
In the first place I never said God lost anything, what I was saying is that He never had them.Originally posted by Trotter:
Homebound, we may seldom agree, but we do now. Amen!
I do not understand how anyone can conceive God as being so weak as to not be able to hold onto those whom He calls to Himself. If God is not strong enough to withstand what we puny humans say or do, then I would have to say that He is not worthy of our worship, and would have to turn to Islam or the New Age to find my source.
Thank God that I don't have to! God is able to keep that which I have committed to Him forever. There is nothing that I can do to change that. When He called to my heart and I answered Him, accepting the completed work on the cross, my fate was sealed then and there for eternity.
How can someone "fall away"? Does God have butterfingers? How can anyone say, "I used to believe, but now I don't?" Even atheists call out to God when they see their own end upon them.
I have been mad at God. Mad enough to want to walk away forever. But guess what? That didn't change my eternal destination. God is so much bigger than we give Him credit for. He already knows how we are going to screw up, and He even knew it before we ever accepted Him. But that doesn't change the fact that once you are His, you stay His. End of story. Praise God!
In Christ,
Trotter
Rom 3:10Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
The question is: Did God endow his sentient creatures with free will or not. The answer is yes. If He hadn't, it would not have been possible for Satan and his angel allies to rebel in the first place. Adam and Eve fell because they had free will, and free will was not taken away after the fall--neither from Adam and Eve nor their descendents.
Belief in free will does not equate to works-righteousness--that is an erroneous conclusion.
Calvinistic determinism makes God the author of sin and man nothing more than a puppet. It is a despicable theology; theo only other "system" that's as bad is Roman Catholicism.
I believe that you can "lose" your salvation if you choose to abandon a relationship with Christ that you once took up. But, from the outside, it's difficult for another person to discern who has truly abandon Christ, and who is in a state of backsliding. Only God knows for sure, which is why I believe it would be wrong for us to judge a person's salvific state. After all, most of us have been, or will be, a prodigal son.Originally posted by Katy:
I dont believe this is what the bible says.
Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?
Actually, it is true. Did you actually read Romans 4, or did you just pop off because you don't understand?Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
Not true. Someone can be born again and not understand anything about eternal security and they are still saved. They are just wrong about this aspect of the teachings of the Bible. As a matter of fact, someone can be saved and then be wrong about many things that the bible teaches and still belong to God. To say that someone must believe in eternal security in order to be saved is the same as adding to the requirements needed for salvation in the first place.
Actually, they aren't Christians. They profess. Did you read Romans 4? Read it carefully. Justifying faith.Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
Daniel,
I do not believe in eternal security, I am not lost--and you are not God!
Let's see now, you are assigning millions of Christians to perdition because of your narrowminded judgmentalism--General Baptists, Free Will Baptists (and others); Methodists; Nazarenes; Pentecostals/Charismatics; Catholics; Disciples/Churches of Christ, and on and on.
I never new omniscience was one of the spiritual gifts.
I believe that you can "lose" your salvation if you choose to abandon a relationship with Christ that you once took up. But, from the outside, it's difficult for another person to discern who has truly abandon Christ, and who is in a state of backsliding. Only God knows for sure, which is why I believe it would be wrong for us to judge a person's salvific state. After all, most of us have been, or will be, a prodigal son.Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Katy:
I dont believe this is what the bible says.
Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?
I think the question is splitting hairs. If you willingly, truly, and completely abandon your relationship with Christ, you may very well lose your salvation. At what point, I don't know. And as to what constitutes an abandonment of one's relationship with Christ, I'm not 100% certain, which is why I referred to the biblical warning on us not to juedge a person's salvation.Originally posted by HomeBound:
At what point do you lose your salvation?
I believe that you can "lose" your salvation if you choose to abandon a relationship with Christ that you once took up. But, from the outside, it's difficult for another person to discern who has truly abandon Christ, and who is in a state of backsliding. Only God knows for sure, which is why I believe it would be wrong for us to judge a person's salvific state. After all, most of us have been, or will be, a prodigal son.Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Katy:
I dont believe this is what the bible says.
Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?