Once Saved, always saved

[Daniel David]

According to Paul in Romans 4, assurance is an aspect of saving faith. If you do not believe in eternal security, you are lost.

 

[Don]

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[Watchman]

Originally posted by massdak:
in looking for a church you should stay away from any church that believe that you can loose your salvation, in fact those that believe this are believing in a false gospel. any type of religion that has one believe they need to do works or good works or any type of self keeping of their own salvation is a gospel of works. beware of those who will lead you into a religion as this, for if one truly believes that they are not eternally secure in Christ then they are not saved. [/QUOTE

Excelllent post 'dak. This is the control that cults and false religions have over their adherents: "If you don't stay in line, you'll be lost." When you are in Christ, you are not part of a plan, but part of a MAN. The Lord Jesus will never lose part of His body.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
According to Paul in Romans 4, assurance is an aspect of saving faith. If you do not believe in eternal security, you are lost.

Not true. Someone can be born again and not understand anything about eternal security and they are still saved. They are just wrong about this aspect of the teachings of the Bible. As a matter of fact, someone can be saved and then be wrong about many things that the bible teaches and still belong to God. To say that someone must believe in eternal security in order to be saved is the same as adding to the requirements needed for salvation in the first place.

 

[Walls]

Katy, the verses you are referring to are:
Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mr 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

These all refer to enduring persecution, not about keeping your salvation. It is neither about earning salvation, but withstanding because we KNOW in the end, we will be with Jesus.

Your story of Pastor John is not possible if he truly is a child of God. There was a time in my life where my husband had left me and I thought God had abandoned me. Over time, I fell into that same type scenario, the difference is the Lord wouldn't allow me to stay there. He showed me I was headed in the wrong direction. I repented on my knees, got back in church, then my husband came back home and got saved.

This may have been a test of my faith like Job. In the beginning I started to fail, but in the end came out the victor because I was a child of God. I had to endure hardtimes but in the end God saved (spared) me, my marriage and my children. I think that is what those verses are all about!

 

[Matthew 16:24]

Katy,

I think I am on the fence on this one and I am leaning more towards you can lose your salvation. One of things that put me on the fence is, if one can lose their salvation then why would God ever give that person the Holy Spirit to begin with? If God knew that person would walk away in the first place. Is God not Mighty enough to ensure someone salvation?
This subject is confusing for me because I see it both ways. However, as long as I am walking with God I know that I am saved. Good example, I wonder too, if that person is saved. Well that is not my decision. Anyway. good luck!

 

[Servent]

Originally posted by Trotter:
Homebound, we may seldom agree, but we do now. Amen!

I do not understand how anyone can conceive God as being so weak as to not be able to hold onto those whom He calls to Himself. If God is not strong enough to withstand what we puny humans say or do, then I would have to say that He is not worthy of our worship, and would have to turn to Islam or the New Age to find my source.

Thank God that I don't have to! God is able to keep that which I have committed to Him forever. There is nothing that I can do to change that. When He called to my heart and I answered Him, accepting the completed work on the cross, my fate was sealed then and there for eternity.

How can someone "fall away"? Does God have butterfingers? How can anyone say, "I used to believe, but now I don't?" Even atheists call out to God when they see their own end upon them.

I have been mad at God. Mad enough to want to walk away forever. But guess what? That didn't change my eternal destination. God is so much bigger than we give Him credit for. He already knows how we are going to screw up, and He even knew it before we ever accepted Him. But that doesn't change the fact that once you are His, you stay His. End of story. Praise God!

In Christ,
Trotter

In the first place I never said God lost anything, what I was saying is that He never had them.
You also said God is able to keep that which I committed to him,In Kathy's story about Pastor John I would have to say that he was never turly committed.
You also said that you have been mad at God. Mad enough to walk away forever, Tell me this what right to you have to be mad at God, He is your creater, everthing you have you have because of his grace, God dosent owe you anything, us puny humans as you put deserve nothing but eternal hell,but by His mercy and grace we can spent eternaity with Him.We have no right to ever be mad at Him for any reason
Yes I believe a person can profess to know Christ and not be saved,(Matt.7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord,Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils?and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess to them,I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.)

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

In preaching through Galatians I have been impressed by the imagery of the inheritance we as believers have received in Christ. The end of verse 28 says "...ye are all one in Christ." I do not want to go into a deep study here (look at the context and cross references for a great study) but my assurance of OSAS has increased because if we are truly one in Christ we could no more lose our inheritance than Christ could, and that certainly is impossible.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Daniel,

I do not believe in eternal security, I am not lost--and you are not God!

Let's see now, you are assigning millions of Christians to perdition because of your narrowminded judgmentalism--General Baptists, Free Will Baptists (and others); Methodists; Nazarenes; Pentecostals/Charismatics; Catholics; Disciples/Churches of Christ, and on and on.

I never new omniscience was one of the spiritual gifts.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Well, after reading this page, I should have addressed the above to massdak, as well.

 

[j_barner2000]

let's see... according to Jewish law, and it is carried still in most states and nations, you cannot disown someone whom you have adopted. You can disinherit your own child, but you cannot disinherit an adopted child. It is interesting that the terminology points to adoption.
Another point is that My salvation is initiated, instituted and secured by God. I am incapable of doing anything but receiving it. By His grace I am saved. Not by anything I can do. If I am incapable of saving myself, then I am incapable of maintaining that salvation. It is entirely by, for and of God that He keeps us. I can not become a was saved (any more than I can be saved) by my own actions. God alone is caable of saving me (through Christ Jesus) and God alone is capable (no, He wouldn't because He is not fickle or capricious) of unsaving me. And He tells us that He has lost none. Nope, not one... That tells me that if I am truly saved I may try to walk away from Him, but (as He grabbed Jonah's attention in an unpleasant way) He will call His own back to Himself. If you are truly saved, He will chastize you when you decide to rebel. Been there, done that and bear the scars. Nope, can't lose your salvation, can't walk away from it for long, and God does not take it back from you either.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The question is: Did God endow his sentient creatures with free will or not. The answer is yes. If He hadn't, it would not have been possible for Satan and his angel allies to rebel in the first place. Adam and Eve fell because they had free will, and free will was not taken away after the fall--neither from Adam and Eve nor their descendents.

Belief in free will does not equate to works-righteousness--that is an erroneous conclusion.

Calvinistic determinism makes God the author of sin and man nothing more than a puppet. It is a despicable theology; theo only other "system" that's as bad is Roman Catholicism.

 

[massdak]

Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
The question is: Did God endow his sentient creatures with free will or not. The answer is yes. If He hadn't, it would not have been possible for Satan and his angel allies to rebel in the first place. Adam and Eve fell because they had free will, and free will was not taken away after the fall--neither from Adam and Eve nor their descendents.

Belief in free will does not equate to works-righteousness--that is an erroneous conclusion.

Calvinistic determinism makes God the author of sin and man nothing more than a puppet. It is a despicable theology; theo only other "system" that's as bad is Roman Catholicism.

Rom 3:10

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:




Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

hmmmmmmmmmmm
it does not seem mans will is free enough to seek God does it? do you not believe that you are a slave to sin? how free is that?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Katy:
I dont believe this is what the bible says.

Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?

I believe that you can "lose" your salvation if you choose to abandon a relationship with Christ that you once took up. But, from the outside, it's difficult for another person to discern who has truly abandon Christ, and who is in a state of backsliding. Only God knows for sure, which is why I believe it would be wrong for us to judge a person's salvific state. After all, most of us have been, or will be, a prodigal son.

Unfortunately, in my own life, it appears that my ex-wife may have decided to walk away from Christ. I hope and pray that this is not the case, and, if it is, I hope that if she is simply going through a prodigal phase, that she be blessed with clarity in the future to walk back into God's open arms.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
Not true. Someone can be born again and not understand anything about eternal security and they are still saved. They are just wrong about this aspect of the teachings of the Bible. As a matter of fact, someone can be saved and then be wrong about many things that the bible teaches and still belong to God. To say that someone must believe in eternal security in order to be saved is the same as adding to the requirements needed for salvation in the first place.

Actually, it is true. Did you actually read Romans 4, or did you just pop off because you don't understand?

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
Daniel,

I do not believe in eternal security, I am not lost--and you are not God!

Let's see now, you are assigning millions of Christians to perdition because of your narrowminded judgmentalism--General Baptists, Free Will Baptists (and others); Methodists; Nazarenes; Pentecostals/Charismatics; Catholics; Disciples/Churches of Christ, and on and on.

I never new omniscience was one of the spiritual gifts.

Actually, they aren't Christians. They profess. Did you read Romans 4? Read it carefully. Justifying faith.

I love how piety is to be the determination as to one's salvation versus doctrine and truth.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Katy:
I dont believe this is what the bible says.

Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?

I believe that you can "lose" your salvation if you choose to abandon a relationship with Christ that you once took up. But, from the outside, it's difficult for another person to discern who has truly abandon Christ, and who is in a state of backsliding. Only God knows for sure, which is why I believe it would be wrong for us to judge a person's salvific state. After all, most of us have been, or will be, a prodigal son.

Unfortunately, in my own life, it appears that my ex-wife may have decided to walk away from Christ. I hope and pray that this is not the case, and, if it is, I hope that if she is simply going through a prodigal phase, that she be blessed with clarity in the future to walk back into God's open arms. </font>[/QUOTE]At what point do you lose your salvation?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
At what point do you lose your salvation?

I think the question is splitting hairs. If you willingly, truly, and completely abandon your relationship with Christ, you may very well lose your salvation. At what point, I don't know. And as to what constitutes an abandonment of one's relationship with Christ, I'm not 100% certain, which is why I referred to the biblical warning on us not to juedge a person's salvation.

 

[massdak]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Katy:
I dont believe this is what the bible says.

Do all Baptists believe in OSAS? or are their some sects that dont?

I believe that you can "lose" your salvation if you choose to abandon a relationship with Christ that you once took up. But, from the outside, it's difficult for another person to discern who has truly abandon Christ, and who is in a state of backsliding. Only God knows for sure, which is why I believe it would be wrong for us to judge a person's salvific state. After all, most of us have been, or will be, a prodigal son.

Unfortunately, in my own life, it appears that my ex-wife may have decided to walk away from Christ. I hope and pray that this is not the case, and, if it is, I hope that if she is simply going through a prodigal phase, that she be blessed with clarity in the future to walk back into God's open arms. </font>[/QUOTE]i am concerned that you believe this way. a persons salvation is not dependant on their own ability to keep it. God keeps those who He saves.
you may want to reconsider your liberal stance

 

[Michael Wrenn]

massdak,

John 1:9; Romans Chapter 2.