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Once saved always saved !!!
- Thread starter fatbacker
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R
Roguelet
Guest
Yes natters the seed took ROOT in the MIND. Salvation first takes root in the mind then in the heart. You have to have some kind of head knowledge of the gospel before you can accept the gospel into your HEART
You are making this verse harder than it was meant to be.
You are making this verse harder than it was meant to be.
I have a brother in law whom is a Christian, but the denomination he belongs to believes you can lose your savation. He does not believe you can believe you can lose your salvation. He has not voiced his disagreement to the pastor.
He was raised in a Baptist church, but was married in a church of a different denomination.
He was raised in a Baptist church, but was married in a church of a different denomination.
R
Roguelet
Guest
Its a good way to keep members obedient, serving and tithing, we should do those things because we love God not because we are forced to, or others will think less of us or that we will lose favor with God.
R
Roguelet
Guest
Yep samplewow, assurance of salvation ist' a hard doctrine to believe. God does it all there is nothing I can do. Thats what religion teaches WORKS the bible teaches grace through faith.
R
Roguelet
Guest
Yes natters the " ROOT " is the issue !
The " ROOT " is represenitive of a CHANGED HEART. The seed took ROOT in the MIND. Salvation first takes root in the mind then in the heart. You have to have some kind of head knowledge of the gospel before you can accept the gospel into your HEART
You are making this verse harder than it was meant to be.
The " ROOT " is represenitive of a CHANGED HEART. The seed took ROOT in the MIND. Salvation first takes root in the mind then in the heart. You have to have some kind of head knowledge of the gospel before you can accept the gospel into your HEART
You are making this verse harder than it was meant to be.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
There's a lot of Biblical evidence against OSAS. Somehow, Ed turned one of the primary passages against OSAS into "support" for oSAS.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV1769 Edition):
4. It is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavnly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tested the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
This is the true doctrine of the Security of the Believer straight from the Bible. Note that this Doctrine does not disagree with
John 3:16 'that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This says that someone who falls away from the faith CANNOT be renewed again. This does not say that it is impossible to fall away. It does say that if you do you cannot come back. Actually, this is a more severe statement against OSAS than others in the Bible. Of course it's consistent with John 3:16 because the "believeth" in John 3:16 is translated continues to believe meaning if you accepted Christ at one time and then turned your back on Him, you shall NOT have everlasting life.
This does not mean that Christ died in vain as Helen suggested. It means that we are expected to be born again when we accept Him and to abide in Christ. This means to endure until the end.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Does a person who accepts Christ as their Savior and then turns their back on Him accept the hatred of all men? Do they endure until the end? They will deny Him before men and therefore be denied by Christ before the Father. What do you suppose this denial of us by Christ means? It means we stand before the judgment seat alone, without Christ to speak on our behalf. Does such a person go to Heaven? Does the "carnal" christian take up their cross and follow Him? Of course not. Then Christ says that they are not worthy of him.
All of those who believe the false doctrine of eternal security will find out the answers to these questions on judgement day, the hard way.
Why do you suppose that the two major descriptions of the judgment, MA 25 and Rev 20 speak about judgment by WORKS? Of course, only works performed bynthose who have accepted Christ as their Savior are meaningful. Everything we do before becoming Christians is as "filthy rags."
************************************************
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
************************************************
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV1769 Edition):
4. It is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavnly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tested the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
This is the true doctrine of the Security of the Believer straight from the Bible. Note that this Doctrine does not disagree with
John 3:16 'that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This says that someone who falls away from the faith CANNOT be renewed again. This does not say that it is impossible to fall away. It does say that if you do you cannot come back. Actually, this is a more severe statement against OSAS than others in the Bible. Of course it's consistent with John 3:16 because the "believeth" in John 3:16 is translated continues to believe meaning if you accepted Christ at one time and then turned your back on Him, you shall NOT have everlasting life.
This does not mean that Christ died in vain as Helen suggested. It means that we are expected to be born again when we accept Him and to abide in Christ. This means to endure until the end.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Does a person who accepts Christ as their Savior and then turns their back on Him accept the hatred of all men? Do they endure until the end? They will deny Him before men and therefore be denied by Christ before the Father. What do you suppose this denial of us by Christ means? It means we stand before the judgment seat alone, without Christ to speak on our behalf. Does such a person go to Heaven? Does the "carnal" christian take up their cross and follow Him? Of course not. Then Christ says that they are not worthy of him.
All of those who believe the false doctrine of eternal security will find out the answers to these questions on judgement day, the hard way.
Why do you suppose that the two major descriptions of the judgment, MA 25 and Rev 20 speak about judgment by WORKS? Of course, only works performed bynthose who have accepted Christ as their Savior are meaningful. Everything we do before becoming Christians is as "filthy rags."
************************************************
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
************************************************
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1. goats are not sheep
2. I can no more fall away from the new nature Christ gave me when I was born again than I could have 'fallen away' from my old sin nature without Him! I am a new person. The old person is dead. Period. End of story. I am His. Bought by His blood, saved by His mercy, and His responsibility for my maturation and transformation.
2. I can no more fall away from the new nature Christ gave me when I was born again than I could have 'fallen away' from my old sin nature without Him! I am a new person. The old person is dead. Period. End of story. I am His. Bought by His blood, saved by His mercy, and His responsibility for my maturation and transformation.
Lots of people who disagree with me are telling me what they believe - which is fine, but I already understand that you believe in OSAS. However, the fact remains that scripture says the branch can be cut off of the vine and burned, the forgiven servant can have his forgiveness revoked, the sow that was washed can return to the mire, the one who is sanctified by the blood of Christ can later consider that blood unholy and receive the greater punishment, etc.
Disbelief of opinion? When do you want to start talking about the scriptures that say the branch can be cut off the vine and burned, the servant who was completely forgiven having his forgiveness revoked, etc.?
I don't believe the Bible is wrong, or that God is a liar. Was he lying when he said the branch can be cut off the vine and burned? Was he lying when he talked of the servant who was completely forgiven having his forgiveness revoked?
Perhaps OSAS is not as "clear" as you would like it to be.
R
Roguelet
Guest
straightandnarrow I dug this up on the subject thought it made sense. Hebrews 6
This chapter doesn't say anything about losing ones salvation if anything it confirms it
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Of course goats are not sheep. Where did I say that? What don't you understand about Mathews description of the last judgment?
You're simply repating your beliefs but not addressing the scripture I posted? Does that constitute an argument? You have a right to your belief of course. I just happen to believe that this is the one critical area that the church not preached. I discussed OSAS with my last pastor and he agreed with me but was unwilling to preach it. It was too controversial. He took the easy way out and preached what the people wanted to hear.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
The right direction being the easy way. Go down and shake the pastor's hand one time 30 years ago and never worry that we were commanded by Jesus to pick up our cross and follow Him. Real Christianity is never easy. It's hard and you have to pay the price.Originally posted by SAMPLEWOW:
natters if you ever get all that knowlege chaneled in the right direction you will do a lot of good for God's kingdom.
I'll be praying for you brother!
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
This chapter doesn't say anything about losing ones salvation if anything it confirms it
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Rom 8:37-39 (KJV1611 Edition):
Nay in all these things wee are more then conquerours,
through him that loued vs.
38 For I am perswaded, that neither death, nor life,
nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,
nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,
shalbe able to separate vs from the loue of God,
which is in Christ Iesus our Lord.
The Doctrine of OSAS is about the fidelity of God not the infidelity of man.
Fifty-four years ago I was saved by Jesus when I believed
God had raised Him from the dead while I confessed Jesus as
my Lord. Then Jesus became my Blessed Savior as well as my
Wonderful Lord. Praise Jesus! I was just as FINALLY SAVED then
as I am FINALLY SAVED now and will be FINALLY SAVED more when I'm either raptured
or resurrected.
Nay in all these things wee are more then conquerours,
through him that loued vs.
38 For I am perswaded, that neither death, nor life,
nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,
nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,
shalbe able to separate vs from the loue of God,
which is in Christ Iesus our Lord.
The Doctrine of OSAS is about the fidelity of God not the infidelity of man.
Fifty-four years ago I was saved by Jesus when I believed
God had raised Him from the dead while I confessed Jesus as
my Lord. Then Jesus became my Blessed Savior as well as my
Wonderful Lord. Praise Jesus! I was just as FINALLY SAVED then
as I am FINALLY SAVED now and will be FINALLY SAVED more when I'm either raptured
or resurrected.
StraightAndNarrow I do understand. I spent 20 years living wickedly and out of God's will and was chastened but never ,I repeat ,but never did I take back or loss my salvation.
And no that doesn't mean I should sit back and just what for God's return.
And who are you to judge what fruit is ?
Are you Job's brother?
Please explain John 10:29 the word's right out of Christ's mouth.
And no that doesn't mean I should sit back and just what for God's return.
And who are you to judge what fruit is ?
Are you Job's brother?
Please explain John 10:29 the word's right out of Christ's mouth.
Amen, Brother Ed, Preach On!
I am one of those who thought I was saved when I was a child, only to realize later that I had gone to the front and listened to the pastor pray.
I can verify what is being said here. If you are truly saved, there IS a difference.
I read those scriptures many times for understanding and it all made sense, after I received the Holy Spirit to show me the way.
I am one of those who thought I was saved when I was a child, only to realize later that I had gone to the front and listened to the pastor pray.
I can verify what is being said here. If you are truly saved, there IS a difference.
I read those scriptures many times for understanding and it all made sense, after I received the Holy Spirit to show me the way.