"Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Linda---2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Butch:

Exactly my point, Paul is writing this letter telling the Christians at Corinth to make sure they are in the faith. If Paul believed that they could not be lost why would He say this to them? Notice who Paul is talking to.

GE:

You think Paul is sowing the seed of doubt in the lives of these faithful? Can't you see he is writing to their encouragement? "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? " What clearer statement from the Scriptures do you need to confirm the simplest principle of salvation, OSAS?!

 

[Butch5]

Butch:
"I do not believe in a works salvation, however I do believe that one must remain "in Him" through faith."

Now would you say that any through faith might remove himself from "in Him"? Faith is true to its own nature; and as a gift - no, as the gift of God unto salvation, cannot, but believe; faith cannot, deny or betray itself or its Author who is the Saviour of our soul. Brought into the faith - the believing unto one's salvation - one has been brought into Christ. Where is the liar and the murderer from the beginning or untill the end of the world, who will break into that Fortress of the redeemed? Has Christ not triumphed over him and all his works already?

Well the Bible speaks of those who left. Also, there is no mention of OSAS in church history until the time of John Calvin. Are we to understand that the church was wrong on this for 1500 years until calvin came along?

 

[Revmitchell]

Well the Bible speaks of those who left.

No, no it doesn't.

] Also, there is no mention of OSAS in church history until the time of John Calvin. Are we to understand that the church was wrong on this for 1500 years until calvin came along?

Which means it wasn't addressed because it was simply understood without opposition. Confessions and creeds were always a result of taking a stand against false teachings. Not every doctrine of scripture is mentioned throughout history.

 

[Butch5]

No man can break that seal... exactly. Not even myself.

God opens doors no man can shut and shuts doors no man can open. His seal is His guarantee that we indeed are His and no man is able to walk away from believing in Him once He, as Paul so succintly put it, is in him.

Jesus said He would never leave us, nor forsake us. That means that even if we do choose to disobey Him from time to time, He is still there. He chastens those He loves when they do sin because He is their heavenly Father. He will, from time to time, reprove, rebuke, and chasten us. But with that chastening, He will correct and instruct us in the right way to go.

Because He chastens us when we sin, there is no way on this earth we can stop believing in Him. He lets us know He is there.

Hi Standingfirm,

Could you please give some Scripture to support what you are saying? You keep saying that a person can't stop believing. What Scripture supports this? There is Scripture that says one can stop believing.

Are the names of the lost in the Book of Life?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God lets you know He is there when He chastens you.

As to the lost and the book of life. They are in the book of life until the time they die a natural death.

The lost will never be found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

 

[Revmitchell]

Hi Standingfirm,

Could you please give some Scripture to support what you are saying? You keep saying that a person can't stop believing. What Scripture supports this? There is Scripture that says one can stop believing.

Are the names of the lost in the Book of Life?

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last tim

 

[DHK]

I'm not the one trying to force Scripture, the word should or may whichever you choose does not mean wiill. The words should or may indicate probability or possibility not a definite. The word will indicates definite. Jesus said those given should or may be raised up and we see that Judas will not be and He was given. Howwever all those believing will definitely be raised up.

You are going by the English language, a translation. The KJV translators freely admitted, that as accurate a translatioin it may have been it could never be perfectly accurate. There was always some sacrifice made for the sake of the beauty of the English langauge. When that happens one needs to look at the Greek itself.

I should lose nothing (mē apolesō ex autou). Construed with hina, “that I shall not lose anything of it.” Apolesō, from apollumi, can be either future active indicative or first aorist active subjunctive as is true also of anastēsō (from anistēmi), “I shall raise up.” (Robertson's Word Studies)

There is no doubt in the words of Christ that he would lose any, or that all would be raised up at the last day. These were facts--at least facts for them that believed on him. Eternal life never becomes temporal. If it does, then Christ is a liar. There is no need to play semantics here.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Butch:

"Well the Bible speaks of those who left. Also, there is no mention of OSAS in church history until the time of John Calvin. Are we to understand that the church was wrong on this for 1500 years until calvin came along?"

GE:
You are plainly mistaken, and it is so sorry! You in the meantime have been missing out on exactly Scriptures like Linda presented! The whole Bible is OSAS and nothing but OSAS. The day you might read it and see OSAS in every word of the Bible, you will know what it is to be a freed man.

 

[Butch5]

No, no it doesn't.



Which means it wasn't addressed because it was simply understood without opposition. Confessions and creeds were always a result of taking a stand against false teachings. Not every doctrine of scripture is mentioned throughout history.

Yes, yes it does.

It wasn't addressed? You would do well to study the early church.

 

[Butch5]

Butch:

"Well the Bible speaks of those who left. Also, there is no mention of OSAS in church history until the time of John Calvin. Are we to understand that the church was wrong on this for 1500 years until calvin came along?"

GE:
You are plainly mistaken, and it is so sorry! You in the meantime have been missing out on exactly Scriptures like Linda presented! The whole Bible is OSAS and nothing but OSAS. The day you might read it and see OSAS in every word of the Bible, you will know what it is to be a freed man.

I usd to believe OSAS. Then I learned what the Scriptures say. Those who reamin "in Christ" til the end shall be saved.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

RevMitchell:
"Liberalism says the end of the gospel is the happiness of man. Fundamentalism believes the end of the gospel is the glory of God.

Our job is not to make the Bible relevant to today----but to make today relevant to the Bible"

GE:
It is dictums like these that make me visit Babtist Board!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Hi Standingfirm,

Could you please give some Scripture to support what you are saying? You keep saying that a person can't stop believing. What Scripture supports this? There is Scripture that says one can stop believing.

Are the names of the lost in the Book of Life?

John 3:16-17 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
16 For God so loued the worlde, that hee hath giuen his onely begotten Sonne, that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Sonne into the world, that he should condemne the world, but that the world through him might be saued.

I define OSAS as what ever the phrase "whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life" means. Note that verse 17 clearly says that 'saved' pertains to this phrase. So once Jesus saves you, you stay saved. Now you and I know that if believing on/in/trusting Jesus leads to salvation then NOT believing on/in/trusting Jesus would mean we would be UNSAVED. But if we 'should not perish but have everlasting life' then we would never be unsaved so we cannot stop believing. The meaning of John 3:16 does not allow for STOPPING believing. Doesn't have to be another verse (though I might find a few) that says 'the saved person won't stop believing' -- the definition JOHN 3:16 precludes it.

everlasting - starring point but no end
When can you check on 'everlasting'? At the two ends: the start (when you first believed) and the end - which never happens. People can't know the last day of salvation, the end of 'everlasting'.

Here we go, the three types of salvation

THEN (if you are saved) SALVATION
Justification Salvation
Jesus justification saves
Requires that the person believe (cooperate with Jesus, not a work of self)

NOW SALVATION
Sanctification Salvation
Jesus sanctification saves
Requires that the person cooperate with Jesus, not a work)

THEN SALVATION
Glorification Salvation
Jesus glorification saves
I guess you have to cooperate & let Jesus give you that new body, not a work of self

We are saved by WORKS - the works of Jesus NOT the works of ourself.

BTW, if you really do have a PLAN OF UN-SALVATION, please tell me how it works it gets you:

un-born-again
un-adopted into the family of God
un-born into the family of God
un-redeemed
un-justified
un-sanctified
un-glorified (for our Dearly Departed saints)
un-covered by the Blood
un-listed in the book of salvation
un-listed in the book of live
taken out of the strong hands of God
un-churched
divorced from the Bride of Christ
Body-of-Christ-ectomy (removal from the Body of Christ)
chipped off the Rock of my Salvation

Personal Salvation must be important to the Lord, He gave His life for it and there are so many word pictures of in the pages of the Holy Bible.

Salvation that isn't eternal AIN'T Salvation at all. Might be a feel-um good, eh?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Butch:
"Could you please give some Scripture to support what you are saying? You keep saying that a person can't stop believing. What Scripture supports this? There is Scripture that says one can stop believing."

GE:
Your approach is wrong. It's not the person who can't stop believing; it's faith that cannot but believe. It's God's gift that is stronger than the person because it is the gift of Grace. What Scripture supports this? There is all the Scripture that says one born again unto believing no one shall be able to take from the hand of Jesus Christ the Conqueror. Can you stop believing? Will you? If you face a firing squad today? will you stop believing the sure Word of Jesus' promise, man?!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

True, Ed. If one could lose the life that Christ gives, then the life would not be 'everlasting' and Christ would be a liar.

Thank you.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Man, if you believed, you would have rejoiced!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Edwards:
"Requires that the person believe (cooperate with Jesus, not a work of self)"

GE
Yes! But more! not only 'requires', but provides! Faith is the first cause of co-operation; without first the grace to believe, no faith, no co-operation! But inevitably.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I usd to believe OSAS. Then I learned what the Scriptures say. Those who reamin "in Christ" til the end shall be saved.

Scripture please. I want the Bible, Translation, Version, Edition, Book, Chapter, and Verse. Also, tell me what the 'end' of Forever means?

Salvation is by WORKS:
not your works, sinner man,
but the COMPLETED WORKS OF JESUS.

Jesus has already KEPT YOU IN CHRIST to the end.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Edwards:
"Requires that the person believe (cooperate with Jesus, not a work of self)"

GE
Yes! But more! not only 'requires', but provides! Faith is the first cause of co-operation; without first the grace to believe, no faith, no co-operation! But inevitably.

:thumbs: Amen, Brother Gerhard Ebersoehn
-- you can Preach that ANY TIME you want!!! :thumbs:

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[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Edwards, I really enjoyed your above post! Thanks; makes me feel mighty good! Thank you o Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dear Butch,
If you are in Christ today, you have remained in Christ since your name was entered in the Book of Life which is Jesus Christ, which was before the foundations of the world our God laid.