Once Saved Always Saved?

[steaver]

HP: With that leeway, certainly I believe it should be the ‘hope’ of every believer, ‘by faith’ that they are eternally sanctified. The question is, can one be deceived as to that which they hope for? I say absolutely. Now what was your answer? Can one be deceived as to their hope?

Why the deversion HP? Are you saying "sanctified" means "hope"? Where is your source for this definition? It is nice that you believe a believer should have hope and all, but how about an answer to my question?

Are you one of the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10 HP?

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

Interesting,

You know the answer, yet the answer defeats your pov. So what will you choose? Answer and accept the truth of OSAS, or squirm around it? Maybe you will just stop posting to me like in the past when you were stumped with other questions. The thing is you are not really stumped, just stubborn. Why not just accept the truth of what the scripture says? why must you go as far as to call sanctified a "hope"?

I must go to bed now :sleep: . "Hope" to hear from ye tomorrow.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Why the deversion HP?

HP: There is no diversion Steaver on my part.

Steaver: Are you saying "sanctified" means "hope"?

HP: Try reading the post for what it says. I simply made reference to the way in which Scripture tells us that we hold our sanctification as well as our salvation, by faith, a hope of things now received by the ‘earnest’ of things yet to come in their absolute eternal reality.

Steaver: Are you one of the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10 HP?

HP: This discussion is not about my salvation or sanctification. It is against the rules of this forum to question another’s salvation, so I would assume that it would be against the rules of this forum to question as you are directly doing, my sanctification. If you really desire answers, you need to ask your questions in a general sense involving all believers, and stop violating the rules of this forum by questioning ones personal salvation and or their personal sanctification.

Let me repeat a question I have asked of you. Is it ‘possible’ for you, or anyone else, to be deceived as to what they see as the Spirit’s witness, or their salvation, or their sanctification?

Can ones faith increase? If so, tell us how something ‘absolute’ can become ‘more absolute,’ or does absolute not really mean absolute?

 

[steaver]

HP: This discussion is not about my salvation or sanctification. It is against the rules of this forum to question another’s salvation, so I would assume that it would be against the rules of this forum to question as you are directly doing, my sanctification. If you really desire answers, you need to ask your questions in a general sense involving all believers, and stop violating the rules of this forum by questioning ones personal salvation and or their personal sanctification.

I'm sorry I have offended you. I will restructure my comments....

Are Christians the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10?

HP: Try reading the post for what it says. I simply made reference to the way in which Scripture tells us that we hold our sanctification as well as our salvation, by faith, a hope of things now received by the ‘earnest’ of things yet to come in their absolute eternal reality.

How about just answering a simple question?
Are Christians the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10?

Let me repeat a question I have asked of you. Is it ‘possible’ for you, or anyone else, to be deceived as to what they see as the Spirit’s witness, or their salvation, or their sanctification?

To salvation? No, The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God.

To sanctification? No, Hebrews 10:14; "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

When one is "born again", on receives the Spirit (John 3) , a new creature is made in Christ (2 Cor 5) , this new creature now walks after the Spirit (Rom 8) .

Can ones faith increase? If so, tell us how something ‘absolute’ can become ‘more absolute,’ or does absolute not really mean absolute?

Yes, faith can be strong and faith can be weak. The "absolute" has to do with "knowing" Jesus Christ. "Know ye not how that Jesus Christ is in you?" (2 Cor 13)

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You confuse "things not seen" with "things not known".

I trust that you "know" Jesus Christ is Lord. I also trust that you have not "seen" Jesus Christ and therefore you walk by faith in that whom you know.

:godisgood:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: I'm sorry I have offended you. I will restructure my comments....

HP: You have not offended me. I did not write the rules of this forum. It is the way some can break the rules and go unchecked and others are drawn into traps and unjustly banned that offends me. If we do not desire to be seen as a bunch of raving hypocrites, fairness in the administration of the rules is in order. Better yet, voluntary compliance by all, including moderators, would be even better. Understanding where one has failed and to seek to right the wrong done to others would even be better yet.

Steaver: Are Christians the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10?

HP:All God’s promises of salvation, sanctification, and glorification are conditional. Faithfulness to the end is commanded by God. Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The problem on this list is that some are claiming to love God in one sentence while saying they are willingly disobedient in the next. Not only that, they claim it is impossible for man to be obedient, making love to be in reality out of the question. Love involves good will, and one cannot love God and mammon at the same time. Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Jesus said, “Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.” God also said through the Apostle John, 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

HP: Let me repeat a question I have asked of you. Is it ‘possible’ for you, or anyone else, to be deceived as to what they see as the Spirit’s witness, or their salvation, or their sanctification?

Steaver: To salvation? No, The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God.

HP: Here is where you are wrong. The enemy of our souls desires nothing more than to convince us that we are right with God, when the facts may be otherwise. I believe it was Calvin himself that even said something to the effect that God has no so designed the assurance of ones final standing before Him to be certain when one is in a state of ‘low grace.’ Although I do not recall him defining a state of low grace, it certainly reminds me of a state where the heart is under condemnation from sin. It is pure presumption upon the grace of God to presume that God has forgiven me in advance for sins I may not even be willing to cease from, let alone repent of. I can think of little less that could be more advantageous for the support of deception as to ones final standing before God that to presume upon His grace. We should be praying with David, “Ps 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.” Notice the progression of being innocent. First being kept back from presumptuous sins, not allowing them to have dominion, THEN one shall be innocent from the great transgression.

Steaver: When one is "born again", on receives the Spirit (John 3) , a new creature is made in Christ (2 Cor 5) , this new creature now walks after the Spirit (Rom 8) .

HP: Strange walking after the Spirit some on this list imbibe. All continue to be liars and unable to keep from sinning, we are told. Tell us again Steaver, just what this ‘walking after the spirit entails. How is it consistent or inconsistent with all the things God says that those who commit such things ‘shall NOT inherit eternal life.’ Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

HP: Can ones faith increase? If so, tell us how something ‘absolute’ can become ‘more absolute,’ or does absolute not really mean absolute?

Steaver: Yes, faith can be strong and faith can be weak. The "absolute" has to do with "knowing" Jesus Christ. "Know ye not how that Jesus Christ is in you?" (2 Cor 13)

HP: Strange how I ‘know Him by faith’, but you with absolute knowledge. Our knowledge of Christ is by faith. If our knowledge of Him increases, if is proof that we did not have absolute knowledge, or know Him in any 'absolute' sense. But our hope is, that IF we remain faithful our faith will indeed turn to absolute knowledge in the world to come.

Steaver: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

HP: Strange how you confuse absolute knowledge with ‘evidence’ of that which you ‘have not’ seen.

Steaver: I trust that you "know" Jesus Christ is Lord. I also trust that you have not "seen" Jesus Christ and therefore you walk by faith in that whom you know.

HP: I can tell you this, that which you claim to have absolute knowledge of you have not seen either. Only by faith do we see our salvation and things yet to happen and only by faith do we know our final standing before God. Faith can only work where the 'possibility' exists that something other than what one believes may in fact be the case. Absolute knowlege of our personal salvation will only be known in the world to come. Certainly we ‘know’ we are saved…..BY FAITH not absolute knowledge in this present world.

 

[steaver]

Quote:
Steaver: Are Christians the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10?


HP:All God’s promises of salvation, sanctification, and glorification are conditional. Faithfulness to the end is commanded by God. Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The problem on this list is that some are claiming to love God in one sentence while saying they are willingly disobedient in the next. Not only that, they claim it is impossible for man to be obedient, making love to be in reality out of the question. Love involves good will, and one cannot love God and mammon at the same time. Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Jesus said, “Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.” God also said through the Apostle John, 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Once again, as in past times, a direct 'yes' or 'no' would crush your pov and thus you make a long post to justify in your own mind why you cannot answer the question.

It isn't that difficult brother. "Yes, the sanctified in Hebrews 10 are Christians" or "No, the sanctified in Hebrews 10 are not Christians". Very simple and the truth shall set you free!

HP: Here is where you are wrong. The enemy of our souls desires nothing more than to convince us that we are right with God, when the facts may be otherwise.

You mean God is wrong then. I only repeated what God said, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

Tell us again Steaver, just what this ‘walking after the spirit entails. How is it consistent or inconsistent with all the things God says that those who commit such things ‘shall NOT inherit eternal life.’

Romans 8 fully explains walking after the Spirit. Galatians 5 explains the difference between "living in the Spirit", same as "walking after the Spirit" (Romans 8) "Born of God" (John 3) and "walking in the Spirit".

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5)

Do you see there is two distinct actions declared here? Living in the Spirit is "regeneration" an act of God. Walking in the Spirit is an act of man so he will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

"[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

HP: Strange how I ‘know Him by faith’, but you with absolute knowledge. Our knowledge of Christ is by faith.

Actually, you know Him by absolute knowledge as well. You have it backwards. We have faith in that which we "know". We do not know Christ by faith. We know Christ by the Spirit He gave us (Romans 8) . Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith does not produce knowledge, knowledge produces faith. The more we learn scripture and learn God the more our faith increases.

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." (John 4)

Faith is not merely about "not seeing". It also is about trusting in something or someone whether seen or not. Knowledge comes from the Spirit testifying with spirit.

HP: I can tell you this, that which you claim to have absolute knowledge of you have not seen either. Only by faith do we see our salvation and things yet to happen and only by faith do we know our final standing before God.

I have absolute knowlege that Jesus Christ is in me by the Spirit He gave me in rebirth. HP has absolute knowledge Jesus Christ is in him by the Spirit He gave him in rebirth. By absolute knowledge we both know Jesus Christ is in us. THUS, we have faith in Jesus Christ unseen and all of His promisses.

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed." (John 20)

The disciples had "faith" yet they seen! How can this be? Because faith is a bit more than "unseen things".

 

[JSM17]

Rev 2:9-11

9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."'
NKJV

These brethren are being told to be faithful unto death, why in world would Jesus tell them this if there was never a possiblity of them not enduring the suffering. Those who do not overcome will be hurt by the second death, those who do not remain faithful will not receive the crown of life, which is not the same as receiving the forgiveness of our past sins. If we have receive eternal life then there is nothing to hope for.

 

[DHK]

Rev 2:9-11

9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."'
NKJV

These brethren are being told to be faithful unto death, why in world would Jesus tell them this if there was never a possiblity of them not enduring the suffering. Those who do not overcome will be hurt by the second death, those who do not remain faithful will not receive the crown of life, which is not the same as receiving the forgiveness of our past sins. If we have receive eternal life then there is nothing to hope for.

Study the Bible, especially the NT, and find out what it says about crowns as rewards. There are a number of crowns that are rewarded to believers--as rewards. These are for believers and have nothing to do with salvation. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with salvation. It was speaking of physically enduring in a time of great persecution. "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer." If they endure the suffering, the persecution, they will receive a crown. There is a possibility that they may not receive a crown. Not everyone is rewarded. But they were all believers, and none of them would lose their salvation. Salvation was not in question here; only a reward.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Salvation was not in question here; only a reward.

HP: And do you know why JMS17? Because DHK said so. You have to understand, as I know you most likely do, that DHK views every such passage through the lens of the false presupposition of OSAS. It works kind of like rose colored glasses. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[JSM17]

Study the Bible, especially the NT, and find out what it says about crowns as rewards. There are a number of crowns that are rewarded to believers--as rewards. These are for believers and have nothing to do with salvation. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with salvation. It was speaking of physically enduring in a time of great persecution. "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer." If they endure the suffering, the persecution, they will receive a crown. There is a possibility that they may not receive a crown. Not everyone is rewarded. But they were all believers, and none of them would lose their salvation. Salvation was not in question here; only a reward.

Yes, the crown of life. Maybe you can tell me what was meant by the crown of life and then tell me why they would not be hurt by the second death if they overcome the trials.

I do study the bible and I realize the bible speaks in other locations about crowns, I get it. But we are dealing with passage, so maybe you can explain what Jesus means here.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

DHK,

How about Rev. 3:5 says: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."?

This verse speaks is so very, very clear conditional that, Christ promises us, IF anyone who will overcome the world in the life till death, then He will not erase person's name out of the book of life. Or, otherwise, if a person fails to overcome the world in the lifetime. Then, Christ have the rights to remove person out of the book of life. And also, Christ shall deny person before the angels and his Father too.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Martin Luther]

The bible does not teach that someone can lose their salvation, the bible teaches that they can forfeit it!

Salvation must be attained, it is not a free gift. It requires constant obedience to God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Martin Luther: Salvation must be attained, it is not a free gift. It requires constant obedience to God.

HP: Who are you trying to offend or pick a fight with? (just kidding:smilewinkgrin

I believe salvation is thought of in three senses. Entering in by repentance and faith, walking by faith in obedience in this present world, and final culmination when we stand before God in judgment and find with 'absolute knowledge' that indeed Christ is our Advocate. Think of it!

So, (not just to be difficult,) I believe salvation ‘initially’ can be thought of as a free gift in that there is nothing one can do to merit it. That does not mean that God has not placed conditions for us to fulfill, ‘without which’ no salvation can be received.

Our hope, if it is to be maintained, indeed does require obedience as you point out. It is not that our obedience merits anything including our salvation, but that again it is thought of as a condition in the sense of ‘not without which.’ Without contiued obedience our hope of eternal salvation cannot be or remain certain until the end.

It would appear to me that we are not far from at least some agreement, would you not agree?

 

[DHK]

DHK,

How about Rev. 3:5 says: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."?

This verse speaks is so very, very clear conditional that, Christ promises us, IF anyone who will overcome the world in the life till death, then He will not erase person's name out of the book of life. Or, otherwise, if a person fails to overcome the world in the lifetime. Then, Christ have the rights to remove person out of the book of life. And also, Christ shall deny person before the angels and his Father too.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Does it really teach that? Or does the Bible contradict itself?

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

It is a given. The true believer will overcome, no questions asked. His name is already written in the Book of Life and cannot be erased. The true believer is called "an overcomer." It is a done deal. Salvation in Eph.2:8,9 and in Romans 6::2,3 is called the gift of God. It cannot be rescinded.

 

[Martin Luther]

HP: Who are you trying to offend or pick a fight with? (just kidding:smilewinkgrin

I believe salvation is thought of in three senses. Entering in by repentance and faith, walking by faith in obedience in this present world, and final culmination when we stand before God in judgment and find with 'absolute knowledge' that indeed Christ is our Advocate. Think of it!

So, (not just to be difficult,) I believe salvation ‘initially’ can be thought of as a free gift in that there is nothing one can do to merit it. That does not mean that God has not placed conditions for us to fulfill, ‘without which’ no salvation can be received.

Our hope, if it is to be maintained, indeed does require obedience as you point out. It is not that our obedience merits anything including our salvation, but that again it is thought of as a condition in the sense of ‘not without which.’ Without contiued obedience our hope of eternal salvation cannot be or remain certain until the end.

It would appear to me that we are not far from at least some agreement, would you not agree?

Yes, I would agree. It amazes me how many Christians get salvation wrong, most of them want to turn salvation into a 45 second prayer, where if they use the magic words God will be forced to let them in heaven no matter how they choose to live. Most Christians really struggle to explain the churches in Revelation. They try to relegate them to time in order to dodge the wrath appointed to those who refuse to reform/repent.

 

[Martin Luther]

Does it really teach that? Or does the Bible contradict itself?

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

It is a given. The true believer will overcome, no questions asked. His name is already written in the Book of Life and cannot be erased. The true believer is called "an overcomer." It is a done deal. Salvation in Eph.2:8,9 and in Romans 6::2,3 is called the gift of God. It cannot be rescinded.

It’s redundant to say "true believers" will overcome and it does not prove your point at all. That's like saying all the elect will be saved. Many people who are not safe think they are safe because preachers have turned salvation into 1,2,3, repeat after me. Faith is not an experience but a life style you MUST live. The letters to the churches in Revelation are directed to the churches. To those stumbling in the faith, people who once held favored positions and have fallen. They are told to reform, to repent, or ELSE. In the Laodicean, church those giving a half hearted effort are warned they will be spewed out if they continue that way. The gospels are jam packed with example after example of Christ forsaking the wayward servant. You must remain, you must overcome, to be saved.

 

[steaver]

Steaver: Are Christians the sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10?


HP:All God’s promises of salvation, sanctification, and glorification are conditional. Faithfulness to the end is commanded by God. Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
The problem on this list is that some are claiming to love God in one sentence while saying they are willingly disobedient in the next. Not only that, they claim it is impossible for man to be obedient, making love to be in reality out of the question. Love involves good will, and one cannot love God and mammon at the same time. Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Jesus said, “Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.” God also said through the Apostle John, 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Once again, as in past times, a direct 'yes' or 'no' would crush your pov and thus you make a long post to justify in your own mind why you cannot answer the question.

It isn't that difficult brother. "Yes, the sanctified in Hebrews 10 are Christians" or "No, the sanctified in Hebrews 10 are not Christians". Very simple and the truth shall set you free!

HP: Here is where you are wrong. The enemy of our souls desires nothing more than to convince us that we are right with God, when the facts may be otherwise.
You mean God is wrong then. I only repeated what God said, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"


Tell us again Steaver, just what this ‘walking after the spirit entails. How is it consistent or inconsistent with all the things God says that those who commit such things ‘shall NOT inherit eternal life.’

Romans 8 fully explains walking after the Spirit. Galatians 5 explains the difference between "living in the Spirit", same as "walking after the Spirit" (Romans 8) "Born of God" (John 3) and "walking in the Spirit".

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5)

Do you see there is two distinct actions declared here? Living in the Spirit is "regeneration" an act of God. Walking in the Spirit is an act of man so he will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

"[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

HP: Strange how I ‘know Him by faith’, but you with absolute knowledge. Our knowledge of Christ is by faith.

Actually, you know Him by absolute knowledge as well. You have it backwards. We have faith in that which we "know". We do not know Christ by faith. We know Christ by the Spirit He gave us (Romans 8) . Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith does not produce knowledge, knowledge produces faith. The more we learn scripture and learn God the more our faith increases.

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." (John 4)

Faith is not merely about "not seeing". It also is about trusting in something or someone whether seen or not. Knowledge comes from the Spirit testifying with spirit.

HP: I can tell you this, that which you claim to have absolute knowledge of you have not seen either. Only by faith do we see our salvation and things yet to happen and only by faith do we know our final standing before God.

I have absolute knowlege that Jesus Christ is in me by the Spirit He gave me in rebirth. HP has absolute knowledge Jesus Christ is in him by the Spirit He gave him in rebirth. By absolute knowledge we both know Jesus Christ is in us. THUS, we have faith in Jesus Christ unseen and all of His promisses.

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed." (John 20)

The disciples had "faith" yet they seen! How can this be? Because faith is a bit more than "unseen things".

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Martin Luther: The gospels are jam packed with example after example of Christ forsaking the wayward servant. You must remain, you must overcome, to be saved.

HP: That is indeed what the Word of God states clearly. :thumbs:

The wonderful thing is that God has provided all the help we need to overcome IF we will but remain faithful and continue to yield our wills in obedience to Him.

 

[OldRegular]

People who do not believe in the Eternal Security of the believer make a liar out of Jesus Christ.

John 6:35-40, KJV
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 10:27-30, KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

Romans 8:28-30, KJV
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Now if anyone does not believe these Scripture they are as the Apostle Paul stated: "Of all people most miserable." It is a mystery to me why anyone would want to refuse the teaching of these Scripture other than their ego drives them to believe they have to complete what God could not do.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by JSM17

The bible does not teach that someone can lose their salvation, the bible teaches that they can forfeit it!

This is another heresy that COC has adopted from the RCC, just as they did baptismal regeneration.