One God in Three Persons

[Van]

Here is an orthodox illustration of our Trinity's characteristics.

If we add to the center word "God" with "the Spirit of Yahweh" have we advocated heresy?

If we add to the lower description, The Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, have we misrepresented the Third Person of the Trinity?

There is One God, the Spirit of Yahweh, who has always existed in Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When a born anew believer is indwelt, they are indwelt with the Third Person of the Trinity's Spirit, which is also the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Van]

Here are different names of the same Spirit.

Matthew 3:16 - Spirit of God
Matthew 10:20 - Spirit of the Father
Luke 4:18 - Spirit of the Lord
John 14:17 - Spirit of Truth (the Helper)
Acts 16:7 - Spirit of Jesus
Romans 1:4 - Spirit of Holiness
Romans 8:2 - Spirit of Life
Romans 8:9 - Spirit of Christ
Romans 8:11 - Spirit of Him who raised Jesus
Romans 8:15 - Spirit of Adoption
Galatians 4:6 - Spirit of His Son
Ephesians 1:13 - Spirit of the promise (Holy Spirit)
1 Peter 4:14 - Spirit of Glory

 

[ChristB4Us]

Here is an orthodox illustration of our Trinity's characteristics.

If we add to the center word "God" with "the Spirit of Yahweh" have we advocated heresy?

If we add to the lower description, The Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, have we misrepresented the Third Person of the Trinity?

There is One God, the Spirit of Yahweh, who has always existed in Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When a born anew believer is indwelt, they are indwelt with the Third Person of the Trinity's Spirit, which is also the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of Christ.

Did Jesus lower the Holy Spirit in how we are to come to God the Father by?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No. Even though the Holy Spirit is God and there is the Triune God, Jesus is saying the will of God for how we are to come to God the Father by explicitly.

Did Jesus lower the Holy Spirit in how we are to honor the Father by?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

No. even though the Holy Spirit is God and there is the triune God, Jesus is saying the will of God for how we are to honor God the father explicitly.

Now if that is the will of God, as in all Three Witnesses within the One God is saying that, and that means the Holy Spirit is saying that and agreeing to that, then who are we to add to His words by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or to even worship the "blessed Trinity" as if that is the will of God for us to do also?

Do we listen to His word that all Three Witnesses within the One God in according to the will of the Father is submitting to or will we allow long held church tradition and hymnals not based in scriptures to continue to lead us astray from His specified will?

 

[Van]

John 17:21
that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

1Co 6:17
But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

1Co 12:9
to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

1Co 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Eph 2:18
for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

Eph 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling;

Phl 1:27
Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Based on the above, the Bible clearly presents one divine Spirit. In Romans 6:3 we were all baptized, spiritually immersed, in Christ Jesus.and made to drink one Spirit.

And Jesus says we are in Him, and He is in us. So being immersed into One Spirit means we are immersed in Christ and He and the Holy Spirit (our Helper) is said to be in us.

 

[Van]

Did Jesus lower the Holy Spirit in how we are to come to God the Father by?
SNIP
Did Jesus lower the Holy Spirit in how we are to honor the Father by?
SNIP
Now if that is the will of God, as in all Three Witnesses within the One God is saying that, and that means the Holy Spirit is saying that and agreeing to that, then who are we to add to His words by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or to even worship the "blessed Trinity" as if that is the will of God for us to do also?

Do we listen to His word that all Three Witnesses within the One God in according to the will of the Father is submitting to or will we allow long held church tradition and hymnals not based in scriptures to continue to lead us astray from His specified will?

Lord knows what this post is actually asserting.

Are we to "worship" only the Father, or Father and Son, and not the Son and the Person of the Holy Spirit or just not the Person of the Holy Spirit. Inquiring minds what to know.

 

[Van]

To "drink" refers to being enlightened by the Holy Spirit's work product the gospel of Christ. Thus we became "partakers" of the Holy Spirit when we heard and heeded the gospel.

Eph 3:6
to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Thus 1 Corinthians 12:13 suggests we were baptized into the same Spirit that invited us and drew us through the gospel. Conveniently, the Spirit of the Father fits with John 6:44.

 

[37818]

There are at least three versions of the Biblical Trinity. Three distinct Persons who are the one and the same God.

 

[ChristB4Us]

John 17:21
that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

In context of this below, it still does not justify worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when the glory of the Father rests upon His Son.

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The glory of the Father is the glory of the Son and by knowing Jesus as the One True God is how you know the Father as the One True God.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Are you keep His word that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by when you broaden the way by including the Holy Spirit or the blessed Trinity as if that is another way to come to God the father by and to honor the Father by?

Then you posted

1Co 6:17
But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

That is about being joined to the Bridegroom as our physical bodies has become the temples of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Then you posted

1Co 12:9
to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,



1Co 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Eph 2:18
for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

Eph 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling;

Phl 1:27
Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

None of these scriptures teaches the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as it certainly did not null and void the will of God the Father for how we are to come to Him by nor how to honor Him by either and yet you posted..

Based on the above, the Bible clearly presents one divine Spirit. In Romans 6:3 we were all baptized, spiritually immersed, in Christ Jesus.and made to drink one Spirit.

And Jesus says we are in Him, and He is in us. So being immersed into One Spirit means we are immersed in Christ and He and the Holy Spirit (our Helper) is said to be in us.

That is NOT validating ignoring His words for how we are to come to God the Father by per John 14:6 nor by how we are to honor the Father by per John 5:22-23 as if it is okay to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or to worship the blessed Trinity as if that is okay. It's not.

 

[37818]

It would seem @ChristB4Us and @Van are at odds with each other over their understandings of God and His Persons.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Lord knows what this post is actually asserting.

Are we to "worship" only the Father, or Father and Son, and not the Son and the Person of the Holy Spirit or just not the Person of the Holy Spirit. Inquiring minds what to know.

May I ask you to apply what these verses are asserting?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Is there a danger to climbing up another way?

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

What if we broaden the way by including the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if Jesus forgot the Holy Spirit and so we got His back as if He needs our help for explaining how believers are to come to God the Father by & honor the Father by? Yea, we are wiser than Jesus and the will of God the Father by approaching God the Father by the blessed Trinity.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

So I see His warning for climbing up another way than what was provided for us. Do you see that as a work of iniquity or not?

 

[ChristB4Us]

There are at least three versions of the Biblical Trinity. Three distinct Persons who are the one and the same God.

If you wonder why Jesus said the Father is greater than He is, whereby those that err use that to deny the deity of Jesus Christ, when in actuality, it is explaining how God the Father is greater than the Son because it is the will of the Father that is to be done.

Did not Jesus prayed 3 times in the Garden of Gethsemane for this cup to pass from Him and yet He prayed, nevertheless the Father's will be done and not His own?

So as the Word of God and the Spirit of God is in agreement with & in submission to the Father's will, then according to the will of God and the spirit of God in us, we are to come to God the Father by the only way provided, His Son as we are to only honor the Father by the only way that Jesus said the Father wants us to honor Him by and that is by only honoring His Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So the moment the church stop honoring the Son in order to honor the Father and they go beyond His word and His will by honoring the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or worshipping the blessed trinity as if going the broad way we can also honor the Father by, then how can that not be seen as climbing up another way?

Is there a danger to climbing up another way?

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Yes. There is a risk for climbing up another way, even when we broaden the way in coming to God the Father by and honoring the Father by as John 10:1 testifies this as a work of a thief hence a work of iniquity for why in these latter days we are exhorted to narrow the way back to the straight gate.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

So I see His warning for climbing up another way than what was provided for us. Do you see that as a work of iniquity or not?

 

[Van]

It would seem @ChristB4Us and @Van are at odds with each other over their understandings of God and His Persons.

Please address the claim we are not to worship the Spirit of God, no matter which Person of the Trinity we have in mind. The claim is pure unbiblical nonsense to those who have studied the issue.

What does it mean to "fear" Yahweh? To fear the Father only, or to fear our Triune God.

And what is our understanding of "to fear Yahweh." To fear Him as a meany, or to fear we might do something to offend His righteousness, and thus to worship Him?

 

[ChristB4Us]

It would seem @ChristB4Us and @Van are at odds with each other over their understandings of God and His Persons.

Just trying to alert him, you, and other Baptist members on how unbiblical creeds have crept into the Baptist church by using the Trinity doctrine as if it is okay to ignore His words for how God the Father wants us to specifically come to Him by and how the Father wants us to specifically honor Him by and that is by the only way provided, His Son.

The Holy Spirit being submissive to the will of the Father & the word of God is leading us to do the same thing, but extrabiblical & thus nonbiblical teaching has broaden the way by those erroneous creeds that we cannot see His words literally meaning that.

 

[Van]

If you wonder why Jesus said the Father is greater than He is,
SNIP

1) Is the issue that Jesus carried out the will of the Father? Nope, not in dispute.
2) If the Son and the Spirit carry out the will of the Father, does that mean the Son or the Holy Spirit should not be feared? Nope
3) Is the fact we obtain access to God's grace through putting our faith in Christ in dispute? Nope

 

[Van]

Just trying to alert him, you, and other Baptist members on how unbiblical creeds have crept into the Baptist church by using the Trinity doctrine as if it is okay to ignore His words for how God the Father wants us to specifically come to Him by and how the Father wants us to specifically honor Him by and that is by the only way provided, His Son.

The Holy Spirit being submissive to the will of the Father & the word of God is leading us to do the same thing, but extrabiblical & thus nonbiblical teaching has broaden the way by those erroneous creeds that we cannot see His words literally meaning that.

Your view is unbiblical nonsense, filled with false claims.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Please address the claim we are not to worship the Spirit of God, no matter which Person of the Trinity we have in mind. The claim is pure unbiblical nonsense to those who have studied the issue.

What does it mean to "fear" Yahweh? To fear the Father only, or to fear our Triune God.

And what is our understanding of "to fear Yahweh." To fear Him as a meany, or to fear we might do something to offend His righteousness, and thus to worship Him?

Think the Holy Spirit in us would lead us in any other way in worship?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

This is about heeding His words & thus the will of the Father which the indwelling Holy Spirit would lead us to do.

Do not the Catholics and Protestants gloss over His words of rebuke and correction by the scriptures as if God did not really mean that?

Then how can Baptist expect any Christian to receive correction if we do not heed His words?

 

[ChristB4Us]

1) Is the issue that Jesus carried out the will of the Father? Nope, not in dispute.
2) If the Son and the Spirit carry out the will of the Father, does that mean the Son or the Holy Spirit should not be feared? Nope
3) Is the fact we obtain access to God's grace through putting our faith in Christ in dispute? Nope

The dispute is worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if the Father is honored in that way and He is not.

The dispute also includes the worship of the Trinity as if God the Father is honored in worship in that broad way and He is not.

The Holy Spirit is God and there are 3 Witnesses within the One God but that does not mean we ignore His words for how the Father wants us to come to Him by nor how He wants us to only honor Him by and that is only by His Son in worship.

 

[Van]

Think the Holy Spirit in us would lead us in any other way in worship?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

This is about heeding His words & this the will of the Father which the indwelling Holy Spirit would lead us to do.

Do not the Catholics and Protestants gloss over His words of rebuke and correction by the scriptures as if God did not really mean that?

Then how can Baptist expect any Christian to receive correction if we do not heed His words?

1) What other way of worship?
2) Who is not heeding God's word, His inspired word by the Spirit of Christ.
3) There you go again, dragging in Catholics and Protestants, rather than the doctrine of the Trinity as found in scripture.
4) Finding fault with others (unable to receive correction) is a dodge, please stick to defining and defending we should not worship God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Van]

The dispute is worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if the Father is honored in that way and He is not.

The dispute also includes the worship of the Trinity as if God the Father is honored in worship in that broad way and He is not.

The Holy Spirit is God and there are 3 Witnesses within the One God but that does not mean we ignore His words for how the Father wants us to come to Him by nor how He wants us to only honor Him by and that is only by His Son in worship.

Good post, clearly stating your views.
Sorry, but your views are unbiblical.

How does an ordinary dog worship his master. By licking, doggy kissing, his master. A dog is subservient to his master, willing to die for his master. Are we willing to follow the leading of our Paraclete, or do we not worship our Helper? Are we willing to fully commit obediently to our Lord Jesus Christ's commands, or do we not worship Him.

 

[37818]

@Van and @ChristB4Us, you guys are opposing each other. And I have argued there to be more than one understanding of God and His Trinity of distinct Persons who are the same God.

Unless we understand each others view, there can be no correcting anyone's incorrect views.

What we should all agree on is the Trinity is three distinct Persons who are the one same God.

I agree with @ChristB4Us in
that the extra Biblical creeds have problems.

 

[ChristB4Us]

leaving it out of quote

1) What other way of worship?
2) Who is not heeding God's word, His inspired word by the Spirit of Christ.
3) There you go again, dragging in Catholics and Protestants, rather than the doctrine of the Trinity as found in scripture.
4) Finding fault with others (unable to receive correction) is a dodge, please stick to defining and defending we should not worship God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

#1 Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or worshipping the blessed Trinity. That is considered as another way of worship,

#2 Not heeding His words that Jesus is the only way to come to the Father and that only by honoring the Son is the only ay you can honor the father in worship and when you are NOT honoring the Son, you are not honoring the Father at all.

#3 The point of dragging the Catholics and Protestant in how they gloss over and ignore scripture is what apparently the Baptist are doing in regards to applying the Trinity in the wrong way as if worshipping the trinity or the Holy Spirit with the father & the Son is okay when it is not found in scripture and no one can say that this arguing from silence when John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 is not silent about the only way to come to God the Father by & how to honor Him by & that is by the only way provided; His Son.

#4 I see the dodge as if John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 does not mean what Jesus said for why everybody thinks it is okay to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and worshipping the Father by the broad way as the Blessed Trinity. You cannot honor the Father in that way, but by only honoring the Son Whom the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do as the word of God says too.