One Gospel?

[ituttut]

- Continued -
Originally posted by OldRegular:

ituttut,

Question #2 posted by OldRegular:

2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?

Response to question #2 by ituttut:

Does Paul preach the “great commission” of the Jew, or the “grace commission” of God’s dispensational gospel of, ”But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement”, Romans 5:8-11. Today we come to God “Through our Lord Jesus Christ”. Once Saved Always Saved, and this was not known or preached by anyone until after Damascus Road. This is preaching of the Cross, the Christian message. Isn’t this New? Isn’t this different than any gospel you can find before Christ spoke to Paul from heaven? Can you find one thing that we must do other than to believe on His name? When we believe all things required are taken care of at that time.

Only Now is Justification activated. That message, that gospel before was for holding purposes only, for the blood of animals could not save, but only preserved until those of Old were washed with the Blood of the Lamb. We today are sealed upon belief of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only name under heaven whereby man can be saved. Our blessed Hope is Sure. I Hope He comes today, but if not it will be tomorrow for Sure. When it pleases Him, that Hope will be manifested. Christian faith, ituttut

Response #2 by OldRegular:

ituttut, you made no attempt to answer the second question: 2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?

Christ appoints Paul as the Apostle to the Gentile, and to the children of Israel.

But to respond to your post.

There is no such thing as a “grace commission” or a “Pauline dispensation”. You state: “Today we come to God “Through our Lord Jesus Christ”. Once Saved Always Saved, and this was not known or preached by anyone until after Damascus Road. This is preaching of the Cross, the Christian message. Isn’t this New? Isn’t this different than any gospel you can find before Christ spoke to Paul from heaven? “

What does Scripture tells us:

Coming to God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [John 14:6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. We see that Jesus Christ tells us that He was the only way to the Father years before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

”No man cometh unto the Father, but by me”. By way of, and through have two different meanings. No one could come through His blood until He laid down His life for us.


Salvation by Faith: [John 3:16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. The words of Jesus Christ spoken well before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

[Genesis 15:6] And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.. Now Abraham lived almost 2000 years before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

I see no verses any were to be saved through faith, do you? Christ cannot let the “secret” out until the appointed time.

Once Saved, Always Saved: [John 10:27-30]
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

Jesus Christ tells us that clearly that His sheep, the true believers, are eternally secure years before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

So you see ituttut that all these occurred well before “Christ spoke to Paul from heaven”.

That is not what He said OldRegular. This is eternal life guaranteed to be sure, but not OSAS, while they still live at that time. This cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.[qb]

To continue – Out of town tomorrow for some rounds of shut-ins. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ituttut:
See sequence of gospels below. Only one is intended for the Gentile.

There was the gospel of the Law and the Prophets.

There is the gospel of John the Baptist (do you question also that John the Baptist had a gospel)to the Jew, with the “great commission” to the Jew First, and after the Nation of Israel received their King the Gentile would be approached. This gospel was the “kingdom is at hand”, and certain things, or works had to be done.

There is the gospel of Paul of Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved by the Grace of God, Through Faith, with no works, and it includes the Gentile and the Jew, and we can all be saved at the same time.

The Gospels according to ituttut:

1. the gospel of the Law and the Prophets

2. the gospel of John the Baptist

3. the gospel of Paul of Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved by the Grace of God,

But no Gospel of Jesus Christ:

1. No John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

2. No John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3. No John 10:26-30
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

4. No Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Woe are we, woe are we, woe is us; there is, according to ituttut, no Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are still in our sins, close the Forum!


By the way John the Baptist had been beheaded before the "great commission" was given by the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ituttut:
- That is not what He said OldRegular. This is eternal life guaranteed to be sure, but not OSAS, while they still live at that time. This cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

To show how convoluted ituttut's doctrine? is consider his statement:

This is eternal life guaranteed to be sure, but not OSAS, while they still live at that time. This cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

I assume OSAS means once saved always saved but I can't be sure. But consider how asinine this statement is: believers in Jesus Christ are guaranteed eternal life but not OSAS. And it gets worse: we are not informed that Jesus Christ shed His blood until after Paul is converted on the Damascus Road which occurred many years later, strange to say the least.

1. Poor old Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. [Genesis 5:24] didn't know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

2. Poor old Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.[James 2:23] didn't know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

3. Poor old Job, not only suffered on this earth but didn't know he was saved even though he said [Job 19:25-27]:
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

all because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

4. Poor old Moses died there in the land of Moab and God buried him but Moses didn't know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

5. Poor old David said of his first child by Bathsheba But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. [2 Samuel 12:23] didn't really know what he was saying because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

6. Poor old Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.[2 Kings 2:11] but did not know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

7. Poor old John the Baptist did not know he was saved because he was beheaded for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

 

[ituttut]

END OF CONTINUATION

Originally posted by ituttut:
- Continued -
[qb] Originally posted by OldRegular:

ituttut,

OldRegular says - Now we examine the so-called Great Commission as recorded in Matthew:

Matthew 28:19, 20
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

In this passage Jesus Christ is giving instructions to His apostles before His ascension. The instructions are simple. they are to go to all nations. What is meant by all nations. Nations is the English translation of the Greek word ethnos. It occurs some 164 times in the new testament and is translated Gentiles 93 times, nations 64 times, heathen 5 times, and people 2 times. So we see that Jesus Christ was instructing His Apostles to go to the Gentiles long before the Damascus Road experience of Paul. Did He tell these Apostles to teach a false Gospel. Blasphemous! Heretical! No, they were to teach the people to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. That included Salvation by Faith as taught in John 3:16 and the Eternal Security of the Believer as taught in John 10:27-30.

But OldRegular you are leaving out a very important part of God’s Word. Jesus in a parable to His people told them they had a certain time period, and if His nation had not accepted Him as King of the Jews, the axe would be taken to them. This is in His Word, and this is what happened to the nation of Israel.

So where do you go from here? In Acts 2:38 while the tree lived, the message to the Jew FIRST, and after they accepted Messiah, it would be the Gentiles that would get preached to. Did that happen under the Jewish proclamation to the world?

No place was ever found for the Gentile, as you can see in Acts 10, for Peter had no intentions of every associating with a heathen Gentile, much less preach salvation to him. Not only was there no place for the Gentiles, but only a few thousand Jews had believed in the name of Jesus Christ, and been baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and all had a least One (1) gift, so others would know they had received the Holy Ghost. What was then to happen to the rest of the world?

But God knew exactly was going to happen and it did, for God implemented a few years later His hidden plan of saving the Gentile, and the Jew could also join in on this free gift. And who is it that NOW carries the Christian Gospel of Salvation to the World? Paul says he will go to the Gentiles for They will Hear it. That implies, the Jew would never accept Messiah (as Christ had told Paul earlier), until God may them jealous. This is all in your Bible if you will only divided it out, getting rid of all the contradictions you produce in the stance you take. This doesn’t mean one is not saved by the Grace of God Through Faith, but there is a more perfect way.

We need also to keep in mind that the Church at Jerusalem was dispersed before the Damascus Road experience of Paul. In fact Paul as the pharisee Saul was responsible for that dispersion. We read in Acts 8:1-4:

1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
2. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
3. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
4. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Now were those who were scattered abroad teaching a false Gospel, waiting for Jesus Christ to reveal the true Gospel to Paul from heaven. Blasphemous! Heretical!

Were they not at first scattered to “Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles”? Scripture says nothing about after the stoning of Steven they made a bee-line to the heathen. If you will only read your bible it will tell you no Apostle or upstanding Jew wanted to have anything to do with a Gentile. Jesus didn’t, His Apostles didn’t, and the nation didn’t. I’m sorry if you do not believe the Bible, all of it, for it is the Word of God.

There is only One Gospel, there has always been only One Gospel, there will always be only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is [Romans 1:16] the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

For the umpteenth time, you are right for what you are saying is the gospel of Paul, but that gospel was not from the beginning. Show me in scripture where what you say is presented in the Old Testament. You believe as does the tradition of man. This is not what the Baptist believes, is it, that all men made covenant with God? Did God ask all men to make covenant with Him? I don’t think so. He asked only His people, and no one else.

What does God say on the matter of salvation today to the individual, and to every one? It is found in Acts 16, and not in any scripture of the Old Testament, and not from John the Baptist unto Pentecost, and not from Pentecost UNTIL DAMASCUS ROAD, and God sent Peter to the First Gentile to be Saved, and it is not under the Great Commission, that is DEAD, for the Gentile (and Jew) no longer MUST ADHERE TO THE OLD GOSPEL AS PRESENTED to His Apostles.

You spout the Catholic church religion of baby baptism on up of “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. They really believe the “great commission” as presented in Mark 16, and from your posts, you believe just as those of the Papal church. When you do you must repent just as the Jews who had their Messiah killed, and you must be water baptized and join that religion to be saved. You do not belong to such a church, for I know of no Baptist that believes one must be water baptized, or to repent of killing their Messiah, to be saved.

In Acts 2:37-39 we find the Jews asking - You apostles of Jesus Christ, and other Jewish believers, all you men and brethren, what shall we of the blood of Abraham do? Peter says I, and all of the Apostles of Jesus Christ say you must repent, and you must be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The promise is to You, and to your children, and to all of Abraham’s blood where ever they may be, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:37-39. In verse 36 is the wording “all the house of Israel know assuredly”, lets us know Peter is talking only to the house of Israel and Israel is all that is involved, and not all of the world being reconciled to God.

James, Peter, John and the rest would have nailed YOU with the word you love to toss around of any that will not believe your “kingdom at hand, and kingdom to come” Gospel. They would think it was “hearsay” to believe a Gentile could believe they were to be part of the “great commission”. Look in Acts 10 for proof. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
See sequence of gospels below. Only one is intended for the Gentile.

There was the gospel of the Law and the Prophets.

There is the gospel of John the Baptist (do you question also that John the Baptist had a gospel)to the Jew, with the “great commission” to the Jew First, and after the Nation of Israel received their King the Gentile would be approached. This gospel was the “kingdom is at hand”, and certain things, or works had to be done.

There is the gospel of Paul of Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved by the Grace of God, Through Faith, with no works, and it includes the Gentile and the Jew, and we can all be saved at the same time.

The Gospels according to ituttut:

1. the gospel of the Law and the Prophets

2. the gospel of John the Baptist

3. the gospel of Paul of Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved by the Grace of God,

But no Gospel of Jesus Christ:

The gospel of Christ Jesus is His gospel that He gave to Paul, or at least that is what my Bible informs. Why do you not believe Christ from heaven, and what Ananias told to Luke? As you refuse to believe Paul, wouldn’t you say this confirms Paul’s account of what happened? ”But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:” Within this one verse is the gospel of Paul to preach to the whole world. What does it say? It is so simple a child can understand, but men want to add to it in one way or the other. To bear my name! You may wish to believe, without confirmation from God, that this was always the One Gospel from the beginning. But that is asinine for no one knew by whose name they were to be saved. You have been told, and may believe what you wish, but you know you are wrong for you have too many contradictions of what you are holding onto.

1. No John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John and Peter wrote their books after Paul, and Paul is the first to bring this thought and word of Jesus alive.

Please try to remember that Jesus said He only came for His on sheep, and when this was said those Jews believed Him, and they would never accept the inclusion of the Gentile. You say you believe Jesus when He walked this earth, but evidently you don’t, for He said He came for His Own.

2. No John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Same as above

3. No John 10:26-30
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

Same as above

4. No Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Now you have it right OldRegular. This is the gospel of Paul, and he says he is not ashamed of it for it is the gospel of Christ, for those that believe. Good Work. Now if you can just hold onto this truth.

Woe are we, woe are we, woe is us; there is, according to ituttut, no Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are still in our sins, close the Forum!


You closed on a good note of quoting the gospel of Paul. You must believe him after all because you keep on quoting him. That is a good sign of growing up.

By the way John the Baptist had been beheaded before the "great commission" was given by the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]I thought the Forum closed.

John’s gospel didn’t die with him did it? Evidently not for Jesus puts this gospel in the “great commission”, and this is the gospel that Jesus preached while on the earth. Do you reject this truth? Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
- That is not what He said OldRegular. This is eternal life guaranteed to be sure, but not OSAS, while they still live at that time. This cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

To show how convoluted ituttut's doctrine? is consider his statement:

This is eternal life guaranteed to be sure, but not OSAS, while they still live at that time. This cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

I assume OSAS means once saved always saved but I can't be sure. But consider how asinine this statement is: believers in Jesus Christ are guaranteed eternal life but not OSAS. And it gets worse: we are not informed that Jesus Christ shed His blood until after Paul is converted on the Damascus Road which occurred many years later, strange to say the least.

Why do you continue to butcher my words, endeavoring to deceive others? Don’t you know if anyone else reads these post, they will know what I wrote, and wonder where you come up with these wild eyed claims of what I write.

1. Poor old Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. [Genesis 5:24] didn't know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

Did Enoch know this while He lived? Was Enoch the first to receive a glorified Body, and to be in the Body of Christ? Are you saying Jesus died TWICE? Once for Enoch, then His own, and now the whole world. Just what other gospel are you trying to feed we here on this Baptist board. This is a NEW gospel, but I will not hear it.

2. Poor old Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.[James 2:23] didn't know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.

Do you deny Abraham and James were saved by faith? If so you do not believe God.

3. Poor old Job, not only suffered on this earth but didn't know he was saved even though he said [Job 19:25-27]:
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

all because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

Does He tell you he is saved through faith. He had faith, and believed God that he would be saved, but he could not be saved while he lived, but only after he died, until Jesus was crucified and shed his blood. Christ shed His blood for them as well as us, but we know we are Always Saved from the moment we believe, for Jesus Christ shed His blood for us Once, and that is enough to save the whole world. Job could know by faith in God he would be saved, but he also knew he would have to die first. Job didn’t know any Gentile would be allowed in the Temple.

4. Poor old Moses died there in the land of Moab and God buried him but Moses didn't know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

I’ll play your part here and say, “I didn’t know that we were saved by the blood of Moses.

5. Poor old David said of his first child by Bathsheba But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. [2 Samuel 12:23] didn't really know what he was saying because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

You cannot change scripture just because you don’t understand it. David was saved by faith, and didn’t know the name of his King. David was sacred to death while he lived for his sins, for he knew they could not be forgiven until after he died.

6. Poor old Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.[2 Kings 2:11] but did not know he was saved because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road..

You seem to believe some of those of Old were in heaven, with new bodies before Jesus Christ? Is that what you are trying to say? Again, that is some kind of New gospel you are trying to put forth. It is preposterous

7. Poor old John the Baptist did not know he was saved because he was beheaded for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ because this cannot happen until He sheds His blood, and we are informed of that fact, which is after Damascus Road.. </font>[/QUOTE]Why is it John the Baptist went into the “bosom of Abraham” at his death in this earth just like all the rest. He had to die and wait for the blood of Jesus Christ to be shed, before he could have the actual assurance that we have as soon as we believe.
This gospel that you are teaching is the blood of animals saved them Once and For all Time That is a false gospel you preach.

YOU SAID YOU WERE ENDING THIS FORUM, BUT HAVE NOT, SO I AM ENDING IT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED IN ANSWERING YOU ON THIS SUBJECT. I’M SURE WE WILL TALK AGAIN MY FRIEND.


Christian faith, and see you around. Ituttut.

 

[OldRegular]

ituttut

As far as I am concerned you have not posted one item on this Forum that is consistent with Scripture. Hyperdispensationalism is heretical.