Originally posted by ituttut:
Originally posted by UZThD:
[qb] IMO monogenes is there (in the KJV, in John's 5 applications of that adjective to Christ) ) mistranslated , and IMO no divine Person begets the other divine Persons as each Person has all of God's attributes one of which is aseity.
UZ
To each his own, and I also believe the characteristic of God is self-derived.
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BRO IT:
The ISSUE is that the doctrine of about 80-90% of Christendom (using the term broadly) [[INCLUDING the translators of the KJV, see Art. II of 39 Articles of 1562]]is that the Father from ETERNITY begets the DIVINE (not just the body) nature of God the Son.
Therefore were this true, the SON as GOD (NOT just as Man) is DERIVED from the Father and is not at all self derived as both you and I seem to think.
A PRINCIPAL evidence for this doctrine is the translation of monogenes as ONLY BEGOTTEN and, in part, what perpetuates it is the refusal to suppose that translation could POSSIBLY be incorrect.
Yesterday I talked for two hours with two Mormon elders/missionaries. They think Joseph Smiths "INSPIRED" version , of which I have a copy , though even some Mormons do not know the existence of, is the correct translation because God inspired Smith to translate.
I brought out a Greek Testament and showed them how Smith was wrong because it disagreed with the Greek.
But they reasoned this way:
God would preserve His Word with inspiration.
God did this through Smith.
Therefore, Smith's translation is correct.
It makes NO difference to them, or I sadly infer, to you, what John actually wrote in Greek.
It only matters in their case how Smith translated, and in your case how the Church of England translated.
Here's a challenge, open up just a teensy bit to the possibility that the Greek word that John wrote does not mean ONLY BEGOTTEN.
If you will do that , I will supply the evidence that it rather means "only one" or "unique" without at all any notion of derivation by a begetting.
Will you do that? Or will you be like those Mormons in this regard and cling to what translators wrote instead of what John wrote?
UZ