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One Gospel?

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
Originally posted by ituttut:
[qb]
Originally posted by OldRegular:
I notice you still don't answer questions. Are we to be saved by believing on the name of the Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, or in the name of God?

1. Are you stating that Paul preached two Gospels? Strange given that he states in Galatians that such are accursed.

I know what I believe, and I believe what Paul says. What do you believe, and why? You ask, but never have an answer, and when you do it contradicts.

Does Paul want somebody else preaching that other gospel to His Gentiles?

2. Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son? Again strange since Paul would then be committed to two Gospels [verses 1 and 9 above]. Also strange since Scripture states that God is not the author of confusion.

For whatever reason you will not believe Christ Jesus spoke to and revealed to Paul His gospel from heaven. Something was hidden from man since the beginning; that is until Christ spoke to Paul. Continue working on trying to find what “hidden”, and “secret” until now means. I have confidence you will figure it out some day.

ituttut there is but one Gospel, there has always been only one Gospel, there will always be only one Gospel. That Gospel was taught by Jesus Christ, preached by all the Apostles including Paul, was preached to Abraham and is the power of God unto Salvation. To assert otherwise is heretical!
You’ve said that before, and will continue, I am sure, until He shows you His dispensations. What does Paul mean by “My gospel”? Who gave it to him? Is it the same gospel that John the Baptist preached, and Jesus lived under and also taught which He was on earth? If you think so, just put them together and see what you come up with. Christ faith, ituttut
 

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
”No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him,” John 1:18. Are you saying God the Father is the Only Begotten Son of the Father? God the Word became flesh, and His Name is Jesus Christ, and there is no other name under heaven whereby men can be saved.
ituttut

Do you have the foggiest idea what you are talking about??????
:D I sure don't??????? :D :D :D
</font>[/QUOTE]Read it again. It makes sense. Christian faith, ituttut
 

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
I notice you have no idea of how, or who established the Christian church in Rome. I know, for the Bible tells us so.
Please enlighten me and all others on this Forum! </font>[/QUOTE]ituttut

How long do we have to wait?
</font>[/QUOTE]Long enough to show you are impatient. It has been answered, as promised, by scripture. Christian faith, ituttut
 

UZThD

New Member
Originally posted by ituttut:
Originally posted by UZThD:
[qb] IMO monogenes is there (in the KJV, in John's 5 applications of that adjective to Christ) ) mistranslated , and IMO no divine Person begets the other divine Persons as each Person has all of God's attributes one of which is aseity.

UZ
To each his own, and I also believe the characteristic of God is self-derived.


=====

BRO IT:

The ISSUE is that the doctrine of about 80-90% of Christendom (using the term broadly) [[INCLUDING the translators of the KJV, see Art. II of 39 Articles of 1562]]is that the Father from ETERNITY begets the DIVINE (not just the body) nature of God the Son.

Therefore were this true, the SON as GOD (NOT just as Man) is DERIVED from the Father and is not at all self derived as both you and I seem to think.

A PRINCIPAL evidence for this doctrine is the translation of monogenes as ONLY BEGOTTEN and, in part, what perpetuates it is the refusal to suppose that translation could POSSIBLY be incorrect.

Yesterday I talked for two hours with two Mormon elders/missionaries. They think Joseph Smiths "INSPIRED" version , of which I have a copy , though even some Mormons do not know the existence of, is the correct translation because God inspired Smith to translate.

I brought out a Greek Testament and showed them how Smith was wrong because it disagreed with the Greek.

But they reasoned this way:

God would preserve His Word with inspiration.
God did this through Smith.
Therefore, Smith's translation is correct.

It makes NO difference to them, or I sadly infer, to you, what John actually wrote in Greek.

It only matters in their case how Smith translated, and in your case how the Church of England translated.

Here's a challenge, open up just a teensy bit to the possibility that the Greek word that John wrote does not mean ONLY BEGOTTEN.

If you will do that , I will supply the evidence that it rather means "only one" or "unique" without at all any notion of derivation by a begetting.

Will you do that? Or will you be like those Mormons in this regard and cling to what translators wrote instead of what John wrote?

UZ
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

How was Job saved?
Without faith, we are unable to please Him. Job is like all the rest, he came By faith. Christian faith, ituttut. </font>[/QUOTE]Under what Gospel?
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by ituttut:
I notice you have no idea of how, or who established the Christian church in Rome. I know, for the Bible tells us so.
Question by OldRegular:
Please enlighten me and all others on this Forum!
Answer? posted by ituttut:
Paul tells in the book of Romans, that it is His gospel that established the Christian church in Rome. Let’s start with Acts 18:2-4, ”And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. 3. And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers. 4. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks”. Aquila and Priscilla became Christians, not in Rome, but after their encounter with Paul.
Same question by OldRegular:
So, what does this have to do with who started the church in Rome????????

Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
When Paul wrote Romans, many had been converted to the “grace commission”. No telling how many were going to other parts of the world with this message that Christ gave us from heaven. People traveled in those days also, it just took them a little longer. Christianity did not reach Rome until converts to the Gospel of Christ Jesus, as held in the gospel of Paul, returned to Rome, or made an initial visit. Paul staked claim to Rome for he said he would not build on another mans foundation, Romans 15:20. There were during the time of the Apostles two (2) foundation’s built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, one that Peter built, and one that Paul built.
Another question by OldRegular:
Just what is the “grace commissiom”? President Reagan created a Grace Commission to look at waste in the Federal Government.

Further Response by OldRegular:
God has always dealt with man from the standpoint of Grace as first demonstrated when he shed the blood of innocent animals to make a temporary atonement for the sins of Adam and Eve. That Grace was demonstrated continually throughout the Old Testament and was fully revealed through Jesus Christ.as shown in John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Your statement that
Christianity did not reach Rome until converts to the Gospel of Christ Jesus, as held in the gospel of Paul, returned to Rome, or made an initial visit.
is simply not substantiated by Scripture and is a fifament of your imagination.

Your statement that
There were during the time of the Apostles two (2) foundation’s built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, one that Peter built, and one that Paul built.
is simply false and as I have stated before is heretical.


Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
Isn’t it true that Paul went West, and Peter to the East? We know where Paul went for we have a detailed account. But if we take your word, then we can know that Peter went East to India as you informed us of this fact when we were discussing the topic of “dispensationalism” a few weeks ago. Proof positive wouldn’t you say, and you agree for you know that Peter’s Pentecostal gospel could not have laid a foundation Rome. However you obviously doubt Paul’s gospel was the foundation of the church in Rome, for the Gentiles.
Response by OldRegular:

We know that Paul went west at the instruction od God, and eventually went to Rome where someone had already established a church. Scripture does not tell us who. I have never stated that Peter went to India. Please do not misstate my posts. I did say that tradition had Thomas going to India.

Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
We see Phoebe in chapter 1:1 is entrusted with carrying the book of Romans, to Rome. To whom is Phoebe to deliver this new book of Romans? To “Priscilla and Aquila”, and the church in their home. So we know the Christian church was in Rome before Paul arrived, some 4 years after he wrote Romans from Corinth.
Response by OldRegular:

Where in scripture does it state that Phebe delivered the Letter to the Church at Rome to “Priscilla and Aquila”? And don’t quote Romans 16:3 because it doesn’t say that Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
It would be some time before Paul got to Rome to establish the Gentile church/s, but by His preaching the foundation of Christ Jesus was already laid by the gospel of Paul. How do we know this? It is in the Word of God. ”And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. 25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.”

What does Paul do after three days of his arriving in Rome. He goes to the Jew first, the “chiefs”, but things are going to change as we see above in verse 28. The people were interested in Paul’s gospel, some believing, and some not. The Christian church built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ was now in Rome for the Gentile, in the center of the Gentile world, just as it had been preached to those after Damascus Road.

So after all is said and done, the Christian gospel to the Gentile, and the Jew was carried out by Jews, and then the mantle was handed to the Gentiles to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to this world, as God reconciles it unto Himself. And the only way this can be done is by the “dispensational” gospel that Christ from heaven gave to this Apostle “out of season”. We are still in that “season” that is “out of kilter” with what went before, and what will come after we are gone. Christian faith, ituttut.
Response by OldRegular:

To bring all this nonsenes to a close there is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which Paul states is the power of God unto Salvation. To claim that there is more than one Gospel is contrary to Scripture and is heretical
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
ituttut,

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 1, 2 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Now in Romans 1:1, 2 Paul states that he is separated unto the Gospel of God which means he was set apart for the Gospel of God.

In Romans 1:9 Paul states that I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son.

Please answer the following two questions simply and directly without endless spin.

1. Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?

2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?
 

ituttut

New Member
QUOTE]Originally posted by UZThD:
Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by UZThD:
[qb] IMO monogenes is there (in the KJV, in John's 5 applications of that adjective to Christ) ) mistranslated , and IMO no divine Person begets the other divine Persons as each Person has all of God's attributes one of which is aseity.

UZ
To each his own, and I also believe the characteristic of God is self-derived.


=====

BRO IT:

The ISSUE is that the doctrine of about 80-90% of Christendom (using the term broadly) [[INCLUDING the translators of the KJV, see Art. II of 39 Articles of 1562]]is that the Father from ETERNITY begets the DIVINE (not just the body) nature of God the Son.

Therefore were this true, the SON as GOD (NOT just as Man) is DERIVED from the Father and is not at all self derived as both you and I seem to think.

A PRINCIPAL evidence for this doctrine is the translation of monogenes as ONLY BEGOTTEN and, in part, what perpetuates it is the refusal to suppose that translation could POSSIBLY be incorrect.

Yesterday I talked for two hours with two Mormon elders/missionaries. They think Joseph Smiths "INSPIRED" version , of which I have a copy , though even some Mormons do not know the existence of, is the correct translation because God inspired Smith to translate.

I brought out a Greek Testament and showed them how Smith was wrong because it disagreed with the Greek.

But they reasoned this way:

God would preserve His Word with inspiration.
God did this through Smith.
Therefore, Smith's translation is correct.

It makes NO difference to them, or I sadly infer, to you, what John actually wrote in Greek.

It only matters in their case how Smith translated, and in your case how the Church of England translated.

Here's a challenge, open up just a teensy bit to the possibility that the Greek word that John wrote does not mean ONLY BEGOTTEN.

If you will do that , I will supply the evidence that it rather means "only one" or "unique" without at all any notion of derivation by a begetting.

Will you do that? Or will you be like those Mormons in this regard and cling to what translators wrote instead of what John wrote?

UZ
</font>[/QUOTE]Friend and brother UZThD how did we start off on equal footing, and then you jump ship over a word? You say, “all self derived as both you and I seem to think”. Then you leave me standing with the statement “Or will you be like those Mormons in this regard and cling to what translators wrote instead of what John wrote?”

I believe the Word (God) became flesh, “the one and only” or in words as most Bible’s inform, true to the Spirit reflecting “Only Begotten” Son of God, and God was man as He was God.

I already believe what you say is true, for to me it makes no difference if the wording is “Only Begotten” Son of God, or “The One and Only” Son of God.

We know in the Godhead none is more eternal than the other. I believe there is Only One God The Father, Only One God The Son, Only One God The Spirit, And this is My God for By the Spirit I Come to The Father Through My Lord and Savior God The Son. His name is Jesus Christ. Christian faith, ituttut.
 

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

How was Job saved?
Without faith, we are unable to please Him. Job is like all the rest, he came By faith. Christian faith, ituttut. </font>[/QUOTE]Under what Gospel? </font>[/QUOTE]Job came as all Hebrews, by the grace of God those that made covenant with Him, to keep the commandments, the Law and ordinances. They came by faith in the Lord their God of Israel.
 

UZThD

New Member
Originally posted by ituttut:
to me it makes no difference if the wording is “Only Begotten” Son of God, or “The One and Only” Son of God.

===

Bro It:

I'm glad that you agree that The Son of God is not derived. To you the meaning of monogenes matters not. But it does to some. It did to the translators of the KJV whose church of England teaches that the Son ETERNALLY is begotten and so is eternally derived by that begetting.!

It DOES make a difference to Christian theologians as Shedd, Berkof, Wiley, Dahms , Williams, and to the Christian creeds as the 39 Articles, Westminster, Chalcedon, and Constantinople!!

These teach

,partly because of their understanding that monogenes in Jo 1:18 , and texts like it, means a begetting,

that the Son DERIVES ETERNALLY, by eternal generation, essence or deity or personhood from the Father. The Father is the Source of the Trinity through spirating the Spirit and generating the Son.

This monarchianism is taught also by both Latin and Greek church fathers from around 200 onward--again based partly on such texts as Jo 1:18.

THAT is why the meaning of monogenes in 1:18 matters!

If you are quite unaware that the Son IS ETERNALLY made subordinate to the Father and that the Father IS said to be THE CAUSE of the Son in the theology of EIGHTY PERCENT of Christendom through out Church history and that the meaning of monogenes is a principal reason for that,

THEN, don't bother being distracted by my little attempts to sharpen our focus on Christology , by pointing out that neither etymology nor usage supports the notion that monogenes means a begetting ,

instead return with my blessing to the defense of your Paulinism against the rock of "mono- euangelliou "- our friend Old Regular.

You appear to already have your hands full.

[ August 11, 2005, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

How was Job saved?
Without faith, we are unable to please Him. Job is like all the rest, he came By faith. Christian faith, ituttut. </font>[/QUOTE]Under what Gospel? </font>[/QUOTE]Job came as all Hebrews, by the grace of God those that made covenant with Him, to keep the commandments, the Law and ordinances. They came by faith in the Lord their God of Israel. </font>[/QUOTE]ituttut, ituttut, ituttut

Now where in Scripture is Job identified as a Hebrew?

Also are you saying that the Israelites were saved by keeping the commandments, the Law, and ordinances?
 

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
I notice you have no idea of how, or who established the Christian church in Rome. I know, for the Bible tells us so.
Question by OldRegular:
Please enlighten me and all others on this Forum!
Answer? posted by ituttut:
Paul tells in the book of Romans, that it is His gospel that established the Christian church in Rome. Let’s start with Acts 18:2-4, ”And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. 3. And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers. 4. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks”. Aquila and Priscilla became Christians, not in Rome, but after their encounter with Paul.
Same question by OldRegular:
So, what does this have to do with who started the church in Rome????????

The gospel of Paul is the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven. Any and all Christian churches must present the requisites of the Grace of God, through faith, without works, the individual believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation. Coming through the faith of Jesus Christ as He shed His blood is the preaching of the Cross, which puts the individual into the Body of Christ, which Christ revealed to Paul. This gospel was first preached to the Romans by one that received the Gospel from Paul personally, one of his Apostles, disciples, or Epistles.

This is the work of God, and He chose Paul to plant that seed in individuals, which Paul did with great gusto. Did Paul physically begin every church that Christians began? Of course not, but Paul’s gospel is in every one of them, for without Paul’s gospel their can be no Christian church. The Christian church is for both Gentile and those of blood coming through the Twelve Patriarchs. As you correctly pointed out Peter (his gospel of the “great commission”) could not have started the church in Rome for he vowed to only preach to the circumcision.

So did Paul start any Christian church in Italy, or anywhere else? He started every one of them with his gospel, which Christ Jesus gave to him. Churches started by man are just churches (meeting places), but when man interjects the message of Christ Jesus from heaven as He reconciles the world unto Himself, we find that person is of Paul for Christ gave to Paul the Christian message.


Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
When Paul wrote Romans, many had been converted to the “grace commission”. No telling how many were going to other parts of the world with this message that Christ gave us from heaven. People traveled in those days also, it just took them a little longer. Christianity did not reach Rome until converts to the Gospel of Christ Jesus, as held in the gospel of Paul, returned to Rome, or made an initial visit. Paul staked claim to Rome for he said he would not build on another mans foundation, Romans 15:20. There were during the time of the Apostles two (2) foundation’s built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, one that Peter built, and one that Paul built.
Another question by OldRegular:
Just what is the “grace commissiom”? President Reagan created a Grace Commission to look at waste in the Federal Government.

Peter Grace presented his findings to the President. Paul presents you Christ’s “grace commission”.

Further Response by OldRegular:
God has always dealt with man from the standpoint of Grace as first demonstrated when he shed the blood of innocent animals to make a temporary atonement for the sins of Adam and Eve. That Grace was demonstrated continually throughout the Old Testament and was fully revealed through Jesus Christ.as shown in John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

I came through the blood of Christ Jesus, not blood that can only cover and is then gone, that blood of the animals. It didn’t last then, and it won’t last now. God presented that Mercy and Grace to those of the covenant, with the law and the ordinances. Many believed Him as they lived, and accepted what He offered, thus they came by faith as pointed out in Hebrews chapter 11.

Today, and today only He gives a gift. Nowhere since the beginning can we find any that did not have to do a work, until today.

Your statement that
Christianity did not reach Rome until converts to the Gospel of Christ Jesus, as held in the gospel of Paul, returned to Rome, or made an initial visit.
is simply not substantiated by Scripture and is a fifament of your imagination.

There were only two gospels at that time. You have already said it couldn’t have been the “great commission” church. That only leaves one possibility.

Your statement that
There were during the time of the Apostles two (2) foundation’s built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, one that Peter built, and one that Paul built.
is simply false and as I have stated before is heretical.

What else can I say other than you do not believe Christ spoke to Paul and gave to Paul his dispensational gospel. I’ve shown you scripture, and there is more if you will only take the time to read the Epistles of Paul.

Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
Isn’t it true that Paul went West, and Peter to the East? We know where Paul went for we have a detailed account. But if we take your word, then we can know that Peter went East to India as you informed us of this fact when we were discussing the topic of “dispensationalism” a few weeks ago. Proof positive wouldn’t you say, and you agree for you know that Peter’s Pentecostal gospel could not have laid a foundation Rome. However you obviously doubt Paul’s gospel was the foundation of the church in Rome, for the Gentiles.
Response by OldRegular:

We know that Paul went west at the instruction od God, and eventually went to Rome where someone had already established a church. Scripture does not tell us who. I have never stated that Peter went to India. Please do not misstate my posts. I did say that tradition had Thomas going to India.

You don’t believe Paul, so you evidently believe tradition. However you misquote yourself for I see no term such as ”tradition had Thomas going to India.” Here is verbatim of what you wrote “I would remind him that there were 9 additional Apostles and that some of these traveled as far as India preaching to Gentiles.” I won’t misstate your posts, when you quit misstating them.


Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
We see Phebe in chapter 1:1 is entrusted with carrying the book of Romans, to Rome. To whom is Phebe to deliver this new book of Romans? To “Priscilla and Aquila”, and the church in their home. So we know the Christian church was in Rome before Paul arrived, some 4 years after he wrote Romans from Corinth.
Response by OldRegular:

Where in scripture does it state that Phebe delivered the Letter to the Church at Rome to “Priscilla and Aquila”? And don’t quote Romans 16:3 because it doesn’t say that Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

You can go through life arguing this point, and every point that has anything to do with Paul believing what you wish. But this servant of the church in Cenchrea, did what Paul requested her to do. The first greeting in the passages is to Priscilla and Aquila, and when she greets them she hands them, and the church in their home something that Paul had written. He then presents Phebe to them as a sister in Christ. That letter is then read in that church, and then in other churches in Rome, and then spread to the whole world.

Continued answer? posted by ituttut:
It would be some time before Paul got to Rome to establish the Gentile church/s, but by His preaching the foundation of Christ Jesus was already laid by the gospel of Paul. How do we know this? It is in the Word of God. ”And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. 25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.”

What does Paul do after three days of his arriving in Rome. He goes to the Jew first, the “chiefs”, but things are going to change as we see above in verse 28. The people were interested in Paul’s gospel, some believing, and some not. The Christian church built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ was now in Rome for the Gentile, in the center of the Gentile world, just as it had been preached to those after Damascus Road.

So after all is said and done, the Christian gospel to the Gentile, and the Jew was carried out by Jews, and then the mantle was handed to the Gentiles to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to this world, as God reconciles it unto Himself. And the only way this can be done is by the “dispensational” gospel that Christ from heaven gave to this Apostle “out of season”. We are still in that “season” that is “out of kilter” with what went before, and what will come after we are gone. Christian faith, ituttut.
Response by OldRegular:

To bring all this nonsenes to a close there is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which Paul states is the power of God unto Salvation. To claim that there is more than one Gospel is contrary to Scripture and is heretical
</font>[/QUOTE]Heretical to those that do not believe Paul’s gospel to the Gentile, and the Jew. Christian faith, ituttut
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
ituttut

Your above response is so disjointed it is unintelligible:

To bring all this nonsense to a close: There is no such thing as the gospel of Paul. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which Paul states is the power of God unto Salvation. To claim that there is more than one Gospel is contrary to Scripture and is heretical
:D
wave.gif
:D
wave.gif
:D
wave.gif
:D
wave.gif
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut,

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 1, 2 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Now in Romans 1:1, 2 Paul states that he is separated unto the Gospel of God which means he was set apart for the Gospel of God.

In Romans 1:9 Paul states that I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son.

Please answer the following two questions simply and directly without endless spin.

1. Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?

2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?
Still waiting!
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut

How was Job saved?
Without faith, we are unable to please Him. Job is like all the rest, he came By faith. Christian faith, ituttut. </font>[/QUOTE]Under what Gospel? </font>[/QUOTE]Job came as all Hebrews, by the grace of God those that made covenant with Him, to keep the commandments, the Law and ordinances. They came by faith in the Lord their God of Israel. </font>[/QUOTE]ituttut, ituttut, ituttut

Now where in Scripture is Job identified as a Hebrew?

Also are you saying that the Israelites were saved by keeping the commandments, the Law, and ordinances?
</font>[/QUOTE]Can you answer ituttut?
 

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut,

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 1, 2 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Now in Romans 1:1, 2 Paul states that he is separated unto the Gospel of God which means he was set apart for the Gospel of God.

In Romans 1:9 Paul states that I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son.

Please answer the following two questions simply and directly without endless spin.

1.Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?

What do you believe these scriptures say to you? Please look closely at what he is saying in the parentheses. The parentheses should bring your attention to what he is alluding to. To whom where promises made? We must read scripture as it is presented, and believe what Jesus said while on earth. He says He did not come for any but His own to whom the promises were made, and they are those that made a two way covenant with Their God.


2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?
Does Paul preach the “great commission” of the Jew, or the “grace commission” of God’s dispensational gospel of, ”But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement”, Romans 5:8-11. Today we come to God “Through our Lord Jesus Christ”. Once Saved Always Saved, and this was not known or preached by anyone until after Damascus Road. This is preaching of the Cross, the Christian message. Isn’t this New? Isn’t this different than any gospel you can find before Christ spoke to Paul from heaven? Can you find one thing that we must do other than to believe on His name? When we believe all things required are taken care of at that time.

Only Now is Justification activated. That message, that gospel before was for holding purposes only, for the blood of animals could not save, but only preserved until those of Old were washed with the Blood of the Lamb. We today are sealed upon belief of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only name under heaven whereby man can be saved. Our blessed Hope is Sure. I Hope He comes today, but if not it will be tomorrow for Sure. When it pleases Him, that Hope will be manifested. Christian faith, ituttut
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut,

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 1, 2 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Now in Romans 1:1, 2 Paul states that he is separated unto the Gospel of God which means he was set apart for the Gospel of God.

In Romans 1:9 Paul states that I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son.

Please answer the following two questions simply and directly without endless spin.
Question #1 posted by OldRegular:

1.Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?
Response to question #1 by ituttut:

What do you believe these scriptures say to you? Please look closely at what he is saying in the parentheses. The parentheses should bring your attention to what he is alluding to. To whom where promises made? We must read scripture as it is presented, and believe what Jesus said while on earth. He says He did not come for any but His own to whom the promises were made, and they are those that made a two way covenant with Their God.
Response #1 by OldRegular:

ituttut, what does the passage in question say: Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

The Apostle Paul states that he is separated or set apart unto the Gospel of God. When did this happen? Obviously it happened after his conversion. Because of the statement in parenthesis you are implying that this Gospel of God was something that was in force under the Old Covenant. How in the world could Paul be set apart to something that was history? What is the passage in parenthesis telling us? What do prophets, especially the prophets of the Old Testament tell us? These prophets tell us something that is going to take place in the future. Now I realize that some dispensationalists [particularly hyper-dispensationalists] like to tell us that the Gospel of Grace was revealed only to Paul. However, this passage of Scripture clearly contradicts that error.

Now ituttut you are shuffled your feet but you never did get around to addressing what Paul means in the statement I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son. neither have you answered the question: 1.Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?

Question #2 posted by OldRegular:

2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?
Response to question #2 by ituttut:

Does Paul preach the “great commission” of the Jew, or the “grace commission” of God’s dispensational gospel of, ”But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement”, Romans 5:8-11. Today we come to God “Through our Lord Jesus Christ”. Once Saved Always Saved, and this was not known or preached by anyone until after Damascus Road. This is preaching of the Cross, the Christian message. Isn’t this New? Isn’t this different than any gospel you can find before Christ spoke to Paul from heaven? Can you find one thing that we must do other than to believe on His name? When we believe all things required are taken care of at that time.

Only Now is Justification activated. That message, that gospel before was for holding purposes only, for the blood of animals could not save, but only preserved until those of Old were washed with the Blood of the Lamb. We today are sealed upon belief of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only name under heaven whereby man can be saved. Our blessed Hope is Sure. I Hope He comes today, but if not it will be tomorrow for Sure. When it pleases Him, that Hope will be manifested. Christian faith, ituttut
Response #2 by OldRegular:

ituttut, you made no attempt to answer the second question: 2. Is Paul then stating that he preached two different Gospels?

But to respond to your post.

There is no such thing as a “grace commission” or a “Pauline dispensation”. You state: “Today we come to God “Through our Lord Jesus Christ”. Once Saved Always Saved, and this was not known or preached by anyone until after Damascus Road. This is preaching of the Cross, the Christian message. Isn’t this New? Isn’t this different than any gospel you can find before Christ spoke to Paul from heaven? “

What does Scripture tells us:

Coming to God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [John 14:6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. We see that Jesus Christ tells us that He was the only way to the Father years before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.


Salvation by Faith: [John 3:16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. The words of Jesus Christ spoken well before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

[Genesis 15:6] And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.. Now Abraham lived almost 2000 years before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

Once Saved, Always Saved: [John 10:27-30]
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.


Jesus Christ tells us that clearly that His sheep, the true believers, are eternally secure years before the Damascus Road experience of Paul.

So you see ituttut that all these occurred well before “Christ spoke to Paul from heaven”.

Now we examine the so-called Great Commission as recorded in Matthew:

Matthew 28:19, 20
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


In this passage Jesus Christ is giving instructions to His apostles before His ascension. The instructions are simple. they are to go to all nations. What is meant by all nations. Nations is the English translation of the Greek word ethnos. It occurs some 164 times in the new testament and is translated Gentiles 93 times, nations 64 times, heathen 5 times, and people 2 times. So we see that Jesus Christ was instructing His Apostles to go to the Gentiles long before the Damascus Road experience of Paul. Did He tell these Apostles to teach a false Gospel. Blasphemous! Heretical! No, they were to teach the people to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. That included Salvation by Faith as taught in John 3:16 and the Eternal Security of the Believer as taught in John 10:27-30.

We need also to keep in mind that the Church at Jerusalem was dispersed before the Damascus Road experience of Paul. In fact Paul as the pharisee Saul was responsible for that dispersion. We read in Acts 8:1-4:

1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
2. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
3. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
4. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.


Now were those who were scattered abroad teaching a false Gospel, waiting for Jesus Christ to reveal the true Gospel to Paul from heaven. Blasphemous! Heretical!

There is only One Gospel, there has always been only One Gospel, there will always be only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is [Romans 1:16] the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.
 

ituttut

New Member
Originally posted by OldRegular:
Originally posted by OldRegular:
ituttut,

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 1, 2 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

The Apostle Paul writes in Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Now in Romans 1:1, 2 Paul states that he is separated unto the Gospel of God which means he was set apart for the Gospel of God.

In Romans 1:9 Paul states that I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son.

Please answer the following two questions simply and directly without endless spin.
Question #1 posted by OldRegular:

1.Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?
Response to question #1 by ituttut:

What do you believe these scriptures say to you? Please look closely at what he is saying in the parentheses. The parentheses should bring your attention to what he is alluding to. To whom where promises made? We must read scripture as it is presented, and believe what Jesus said while on earth. He says He did not come for any but His own to whom the promises were made, and they are those that made a two way covenant with Their God.
Response #1 by OldRegular:

ituttut, what does the passage in question say: Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

I see you still can’t grasp it. Christ separated the Jew out for the gospel of God. God promised the Jew they would spread the gospel of God. Paul is a Jew. That was prophesied. Jesus was an Apostle, and Jesus chose Apostle’s while He was on earth, and they were sent to His people. What wasn’t prophesied was the “secret”, and if you don’t believe that, can you believe Christ as He sits next to His Father in Heaven? Can you believe John’s book on Revelation he received from heaven? You can have your favorites, but they mean nothing unless you believe Christ Jesus as He spoke from heaven.

The Apostle Paul states that he is separated or set apart unto the Gospel of God. When did this happen? Obviously it happened after his conversion. Because of the statement in parenthesis you are implying that this Gospel of God was something that was in force under the Old Covenant. How in the world could Paul be set apart to something that was history? What is the passage in parenthesis telling us? What do prophets, especially the prophets of the Old Testament tell us? These prophets tell us something that is going to take place in the future. Now I realize that some dispensationalists [particularly hyper-dispensationalists] like to tell us that the Gospel of Grace was revealed only to Paul. However, this passage of Scripture clearly contradicts that error.

Paul is set apart to the Gospel of God according to prophecy. After informing Paul of this, Christ begins teaching Saul/Paul the gospel to the Gentiles, and the Jew, and the reconciling of the world unto Himself in the Body of Christ.

But you continue to say the Gospel has always been the same. Scripture proves you wrong as I keep pointing out to you. Was there only One gospel from the beginning? Ridicules if you believe the Word of God.

See sequence of gospels below. Only one is intended for the Gentile.

Now ituttut you are shuffled your feet but you never did get around to addressing what Paul means in the statement I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son. neither have you answered the question: 1.Are you saying that the Gospel of God is different than the Gospel of God the Son?

You have shown contradiction at every turn. I give you a chance to answer and you can’t, as usual. Is not the Son of God, God?

There was the gospel of the Law and the Prophets.

There is the gospel of John the Baptist (do you question also that John the Baptist had a gospel)to the Jew, with the “great commission” to the Jew First, and after the Nation of Israel received their King the Gentile would be approached. This gospel was the “kingdom is at hand”, and certain things, or works had to be done.

There is the gospel of Paul of Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved by the Grace of God, Through Faith, with no works, and it includes the Gentile and the Jew, and we can all be saved at the same time.[qb]

Getting too long. Will continue.
 
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