Oneness pentecostalism, Christian or Cult

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
MEE,
That quote is all just double-speak. So if you don't speak in tongues as an evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit you are not saved. Right?
Therefore it is necessary to speak in tongues to be saved.
DHK

DHK, read it again real s-l-o-w! Then maybe you will understand what is being misinterpreted by the writer.

Speaking in tongues does not save a person. It is the evidence that one has been filled with the Spirit of God!..just like they did in the Bible. ACTS 2:4...don't you just hate that book? Gets in your way, doesn't it?</font>[/QUOTE]No, I like the Book of Acts very much. I am just not confine to it. Too bad you can't demonstrate your theology of salvation without the Book of Acts. That is really pitiful.

Here is a quote you previously made from Bernard:

any individual who has received the Holy Spirit, and thus will be saved, will also receive and exhibit the gift of tongues.

To be saved you need the baptism of the Spirit.
The baptism of the Spirit is evidenced by tongues.
Thus, tongues is essential to salvation. It is a sign that one has been saved, now, isn't it?
If you are honest you will answer in the affirmative. You would consider a person who has not spoken in tongues unsaved, right?
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:


Here is a quote you previously made from Bernard:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />any individual who has received the Holy Spirit, and thus will be saved, will also receive and exhibit the gift of tongues.

DHK </font>[/QUOTE]No, DHK, you are wrong again! The quote above is from the 'Writer.' I will post it again so you and others can see what was said!

quote: Tongues

Many Oneness Pentecostals believe that Christians must receive the gift of tongues, or glossolalia, in order to be saved. It should be pointed out that such Oneness Pentecostals do not believe that the gift of tongues in itself will save individuals; however, ((( any individual who has received the Holy Spirit, and thus will be saved, will also receive and exhibit the gift of tongues. ))) David K. Bernard explains,

Below is what David Bernard says!

***Tongues in and of themselves do not save. Nevertheless, the relationship between the Spirit baptism and tongues is similar to that of faith and works. We are saved by faith, not works, yet works always accompany genuine faith. Likewise, tongues cannot save us, yet the Spirit baptism produces tongues as the initial sign…A Spirit baptism without tongues is a nonbiblical concept; the Bible does not discuss this possibility. We should always expect speaking in tongues when someone receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

See, the writer is trying to make people believe that Oneness saints believe that you have to experience "divers kinds of languages" in order to be saved.

The point is, David Bernard never said what was implied!

MEE

 

[Charles Meadows]

Tongues in and of themselves do not save. Nevertheless, the relationship between the Spirit baptism and tongues is similar to that of faith and works. We are saved by faith, not works, yet works always accompany genuine faith. Likewise, tongues cannot save us, yet the Spirit baptism produces tongues as the initial sign…A Spirit baptism without tongues is a nonbiblical concept; the Bible does not discuss this possibility. We should always expect speaking in tongues when someone receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Spirit Baptism? What are the fruits of the Spirit? Look in Galatians 5. We can see the witness of the Spirit's presence when a person exemplifies these qualities (meekness, longsuffering, etc). Nowhere in the Bible is it even hinted that Christians need to show tongues as an outward sign of the Spirit's indwelling.

The Bible says we will know Christians by their love, not by their ability to speak in gibberish.

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
This page explains the beliefs of this cult pretty clearly.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Cult simply means that such groups seem to promote doctrine or practices which may be considered outside the realm of historic Christianity.

</font>[/QUOTE]Purgatory is a historical church belief. Does that make it right?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

The point is, David Bernard never said what was implied!

MEE

It is still all double-speak, MEE. Bernard's words:

Spirit baptism produces tongues as the initial sign…A Spirit baptism without tongues is a nonbiblical concept;

Spirit baptism without tongues is nonbiblical, therefore tongues are necessary to salvation. No matter which way you cut it, he contradicts himself and ends up saying that tongues are necessary for salvation.
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by atestring:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dianetavegia:
This page explains the beliefs of this cult pretty clearly.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Cult simply means that such groups seem to promote doctrine or practices which may be considered outside the realm of historic Christianity.

</font>[/QUOTE]Purgatory is a historical church belief. Does that make it right? </font>[/QUOTE]atestring, it's called "Pick & Choose."

Some don't like certain books of the Bible, so we aren't supposed not use them because they were for the Jews and Gentiles of the "Early Church," as in for the Bride of Christ at the beginning, but not for the Bride today.

The Apostles taught repentance, water baptism, and the infilling of the Spirit of God, according to the Bible, but that's not important anymore.

Now it's recite the sinner's prayer.

What's the use?...people have been arguing over these things for years.

Have a goodnight!
MEE

 

[Ben W]

Baptists teach repentance, Baptistm and we belive that we are filled with the Holy Ghost when we are born again, sounds perfectly in line with the teaching of the Apostles!

 

[kjv34]

MEE every time the Pentecostals 9Oneness or Trinity) talk about Speaking in tongues they go to Acts 2:1-4 to back themselves but they leave out verses 5-11 these verses CLEARLY SHOWS what they was talking about, known Languges in the world at that time
V 6 says ......were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
V7. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
V 8. And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
V 9. Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
V10. Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
V 11.
LORD Bless

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by kjv34:
MEE every time the Pentecostals 9Oneness or Trinity) talk about Speaking in tongues they go to Acts 2:1-4 to back themselves but they leave out verses 5-11 these verses CLEARLY SHOWS what they was talking about, known Languges in the world at that time
V 6 says ......were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
V7. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
V 8. And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
V 9. Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
V10. Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
V 11.
LORD Bless

Well kjv34, there is no problem with those verses. What most don't realize is that in verse six it says, "Now when this was noised abroad the multitude came together,...

What Peter explained in verses 15-17 is that what had happened was that Joel 2 had been fulfulled.

15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
**Three hours had passed since God filled the 120 with His Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, in that upperroom.

Keep in mind that when "The Day of Pentecost" came it was six o'clock in the morning. By the time the news had spread that something had happened, it was nine o'clock...three hours later.

16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;...
17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God; I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:...

There is nothing mentioned about "The gift of tongues" which is accompanied with "The gift of interpretation."

That being said, what happend in Acts was that God had poured out His Spirit to every man that was willing to believe what Peter told the group that came together. Which was..

Acts 2:38-39

38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Yes, it is correct to say that one has to believe, according to the scriptures.

MEE

 

[atestring]

I have visited United Pentecostal churches before.
They are not a cult.
I may differ on some beliefs just as I would on some Episcopal, Methodist, Assembly of God, or Nazarene beliefs but i will not call any of the above a cult. i peersonally think it is childish to call everyone but oneself a cult. How arrogant and ignorant.
United Pentecostals and Apostolic Love Jesus and are saved by the atoining blood of our Precious savior Jesus Christ. How dare we talk about God's children that way!

 

[tamborine lady]

Let me tell you of an experience I had at a United Penticostal Church here in the area where I live.

This was over 20 years ago. We had just moved here, and found this church and started going quite regularly. But I would pick up on little things people would say that made me think something was not right! But when I would ask the Pastor if they taught that you had to speak in tongues to go to heaven, he always said no and gave some explanation.

Then one sunday morning pastor stood up and said:

and I quote:I want to ask everyone to pray for Brother(name not important) because he is very sick and not expected to live. Please pray that he will receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the gift of speaking in tongues, and speak out loud so someone can hear him so that he will go to heaven!!

Now I believe in tongues, BUT it is NOT a requirement to reach heaven as far as I know.

So when the service was over, I cornered the pastor, repeated what he said and asked him point blank if he was saying that you had to speak in tongues, out loud, so someone can hear you or you wouldn't go to heaven??

Caught with his "hand in the cookie jar" so to speak, he turned red and admitted that that was indeed what the UPC taught and believed.

Do with it what you will, but I heard it with my own ears from a UPC pastor!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by atestring:
I have visited United Pentecostal churches before.
They are not a cult.
I may differ on some beliefs just as I would on some Episcopal, Methodist, Assembly of God, or Nazarene beliefs but i will not call any of the above a cult. i peersonally think it is childish to call everyone but oneself a cult. How arrogant and ignorant.
United Pentecostals and Apostolic Love Jesus and are saved by the atoining blood of our Precious savior Jesus Christ. How dare we talk about God's children that way!

How does the UPC deal with people that go to its congregations that are Trinitarian Christians?

What does the UPC have to say about Christian Churches? Do they believe that Baptists are saved?

 

[kjv34]

atestring

I agree with you here, but there are some in every Church that try to make their Faith seem to be, you know the ones that are this way My faith is the only ones that will be in Heaven in the Baptist relm they are known as Baptist Briders
there are some in the Apostolic Pentecostal faith that say they are the only ones
this is sad because the Bible tells us that when
( I believe it was Peter) rebuked a group of people who was casting out devils in the LORDs name Jesus told him that they was his and one day they will be with Him
then the Bible tells us Jesus said, My sheep know my voice and will come to him and he will in nowise cast out
no, I don't believe that the Apostolics are a cult, but I also don't believe they have a full understanding of Scriptures ( I'm a Baptist and I son't have a full understanding ) as someone told me " how can I practice the verses I don't understand, It's the Verses I Understand that I don't follow is the ones I need to worry about" I'll add this to that "we should want to learn more about the verses we don't understand, to try and get a better understanding of what we are supose to know, and do your best to follow the verses you do understnd"

 

[delly]

ate, if you are not a oneness Pentecostal then, by their standards, you are not saved. We have a Oneness Pentecostal week long campmeeting every year in our building and I have sat in (way up in the balcony) on some of their preaching sessions. According to their ministers everyone of us is going to hell if we believe in the Trinity.

How could THEY talk about God's children that way?

 

[tamborine lady]

By the way, I never went back to that church again, BUT I still believe they are christian.

Even though they have some of their doctrine wrong, doesn't make them a cult.

Tam

 

[music4Him]

Before I answer this poll I have to ask a question on three essential things as to what the Oneness Pentecostalism believes. Do they believe the three essentials in the qoute below?
BTW, I got this information from a test at www.carm.org if you would like to check out the Salvation test here is that link.

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/test.htm

Here is what the administrator of the test said....
quote:
__________________________________________________
What are the essentials? Easy. The Bible tells us what they are. They are test questions number 3, 8, and 12.

3) Jesus is God in flesh;

8) Jesus rose from the dead in the same body he died in; and

12) Salvation, or the forgiveness of sins, is by grace through faith. You cannot add anything to Jesus' finished work.

There are many extremely important doctrines in the Bible: the Trinity, resurrection, forgiveness, the virgin birth, etc. But the Bible itself declares that these three are essential. If you deny any one of the three then you are not a Christian.
__________________________________________________

Do Oneness Petacostals believe these 3 things needful for salvation?

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by music4Him:
Before I answer this poll I have to ask a question on three essential things as to what the Oneness Pentecostalism believes. Do they believe the three essentials in the qoute below?
BTW, I got this information from a test at www.carm.org if you would like to check out the Salvation test here is that link.

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/test.htm

Here is what the administrator of the test said....
quote:
__________________________________________________
What are the essentials? Easy. The Bible tells us what they are. They are test questions number 3, 8, and 12.

3) Jesus is God in flesh;

8) Jesus rose from the dead in the same body he died in; and

12) Salvation, or the forgiveness of sins, is by grace through faith. You cannot add anything to Jesus' finished work.

Do Oneness Petacostals believe these 3 things needful for salvation?

Absolutely!

MEE

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:

What are the essentials? Easy. The Bible tells us what they are. They are test questions number 3, 8, and 12.

3) Jesus is God in flesh;

8) Jesus rose from the dead in the same body he died in; and

12) Salvation, or the forgiveness of sins, is by grace through faith. You cannot add anything to Jesus' finished work.

Do Oneness Petacostals believe these 3 things needful for salvation?

Absolutely!

MEE

[/QB][/QUOTE]
No you don't MEE. You believe that salvation is by works, the work of baptism. Unless you're baptized you cannot be saved. Right? Baptism is a work. You don't beieve that salvation is all of the grace of God, else you wouldn't consider baptism essential to salvation. If baptism is essential to salvation, then salvation is by works.
DHK

[ January 16, 2005, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:

No you don't MEE. You believe that salvation is by works, the work of baptism. Unless your baptized you cannot be saved. Right? Bap;tism is a work. You don't beieve that salvation is all of the grace of God, else you wouldn't consider baptism essential to salvation. If baptism is essential to salvation, then salvation is by works.
DHK [/QB][/QUOTE]

Now you've taken up mind reading?

Go away!! ***sigh***

MEE

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:

No you don't MEE. You believe that salvation is by works, the work of baptism. Unless your baptized you cannot be saved. Right? Bap;tism is a work. You don't beieve that salvation is all of the grace of God, else you wouldn't consider baptism essential to salvation. If baptism is essential to salvation, then salvation is by works.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Now you've taken up mind reading?

Go away!! ***sigh***

MEE

[/QB][/QUOTE]
It is not mind reading MEE. It is all according to Oneness theology, of which cult you are a part of. Oneness people teach that baptism is essential to salvation. You believe the same thing, correct? This is not mind reading. You have posted the same before; it is what your cult believes. If baptism is essential to salvation, then salvation is by works. For baptism is a work
DHK