Oneness pentecostalism, Christian or Cult

[DHK]

I agree with Marcia. If Christ is not the Christ of the Bible, then he is not the same Jesus that others call "their Lord and Saviour."

Muslims beieve in Christ too, but only as a prophet.
J.W.'s believe in Christ also, but as Michael the Archangel.
Mormons believe in Christ also--as a created being, the offspring of a spirit Father and a spirit wife from another planet.
Oneness believe in another Christ simply due to the fact that the Christ they believe in is not the same triune God of the Bible, the second person of the trinity that we believe in.

Who is Christ:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Christ is the mighty God. He is the everlasting Father. This is not possible without belief in the trinity.
DHK

 

[Nevertheless]

Christ is the mighty God. He is the everlasting Father. This is not possible without belief in the trinity.

Hmmmm . . .

Actually, the verse you quoted supports Oneness rather than Trinity. Christ is the Father. That's what MEE says, isn't it?

 

[DHK]

No, there are three persons in one triune Godhead.
MEE says that Christ is a manifestation of God the Father, and thus God the Father and God the Son cannot be present at the same time and place since one is a manifestation of the other.
We believe they are three distinct persons in one God, not one God manifesting itself in three persons or persnoages. There is a difference, and it is a big one.
DHK

 

[Rookiepastor]

Mee,

Wow... I wish I had the time today to monitor this thread.

So according to your beliefs, I am just at that repentent stage... wow....

I will not try to argue with you. Just know that I am praying for you.

All of these good people have tried to share with you very good sources for you to read and reflect upon.

You are involved in a cult.

Again I am praying for you, that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth to you.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Nevertheless:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Christ is the mighty God. He is the everlasting Father. This is not possible without belief in the trinity.

Hmmmm . . .

Actually, the verse you quoted supports Oneness rather than Trinity. Christ is the Father. That's what MEE says, isn't it? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes 'Never' that scripture does support the Oneness of God. I don't know how any trinitarian can quote that scripture and not see that there is but one God. Jesus is God, in the flesh or became a man.

When referring to the Son, the Bible is talking about the 'flesh' that God came to Earth in, so that He could be the sacrifice. The Spirit of God had 'no blood' ..so that is why the Bible says that God sent His 'Son' or flesh to die.

The Spirit of God could not die...He had no 'BLOOD.'

In Him dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

God didn't send another, He came Himself! If I was allowed to post 'quotes' or links, it could be explained better, but you know the rest of that story.

BTW Marcia & DHK, those are trinitarian websites and yes they are going to put down the belief in One God! Sad, but true.

MEE

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by atestring:
Come on Marcia,
Do you really believe that Oneness people have another Jesus??

Do you really think I would post all that and not really mean it? It's not whether I believe it or not, it's what the Bible teaches. The Bible clearly teaches the Trinity. The Oneness Jesus has no Father because the OJ (Oneness Jesus) is the Father. Or maybe he's the flesh of the Father (in some views). So when Jesus prays to the Father, which is all over the Gospels, he's really talking to himself. And when he says, "My Father," he's talking about himself. That is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Before you criticize me again for taking this position, why don't you read a few of these articles?
http://www.carm.org/oneness/onenessquestionresponse.htm

ONENESS PENTECOSTAL

http://www.carm.org/oneness.htm

http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm </font>[/QUOTE]I have been in a meeting held by Watchman. They like to throw around buzz phrases such as another Gospel or another Jesus. If you don't get on their bandwagon and say "shiboleth" with their accent ,then you are not really a Christian in their opinion. You just wait Marcia, at some point in you life you will think a thought that is outside of the "watchman box" and they will say that you believe in another Jesus.
Paul used the phrase "another gospel" refering to those who demanded circumcision of the Gentiles and they like to stretch this into a doctrine about anyone that does not support their agenda.

[ January 21, 2005, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[Nevertheless]

If I was allowed to post 'quotes' or links, it could be explained better, but you know the rest of that story.

Actually, I don't. Are you not allowed to post quotes or links??

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Nevertheless:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If I was allowed to post 'quotes' or links, it could be explained better, but you know the rest of that story.

Actually, I don't. Are you not allowed to post quotes or links?? </font>[/QUOTE]No, not anything that the BB thinks is against their beliefs. The posters can post against me, using links or quotes, but I can't use professional documentations. Sad isn't it?...especially since we are on a *debate forum*...but that is their rules.

MEE

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:
No, not anything that the BB thinks is against their beliefs. The posters can post against me, using links or quotes, but I can't use professional documentations. Sad isn't it?...especially since we are on a *debate forum*...but that is their rules.

MEE

The rule is there MEE, beause when the Catholics were here they would post links to their websites which would be advertisements for the Catholic religion. BB does not exist to be an advertisement for other religions. If you start posting different URL's to many of your various websites you are doing nothing but promoting and advertising the Oneness religion on a Baptist Board. This is not an advertising agency for false religions. So debate what you have to say. If the documentation of what others have posted is wrong you should be able to refute it. It is your religion after all.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Rookiepastor:
Mee,

Wow... I wish I had the time today to monitor this thread.

So according to your beliefs, I am just at that repentent stage... wow....

I will not try to argue with you. Just know that I am praying for you.

All of these good people have tried to share with you very good sources for you to read and reflect upon.

You are involved in a cult.

Again I am praying for you, that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth to you.

Mee, in the above post by rookie pastor, a relative new comer to the board, he read through this thread and considered the evidence. He no doubt saw:
That the Jesus you beleive in is not the Jesus of the Bible.
That the baptism you believe in is not essential to salvation.
Thus the salvation you believe in is not the salvation taught in the Bible.
And therefore, you belong to a cult.

Consequently he said: Again I am praying for you, that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth to you.
I also will do the same.
DHK

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MEE:
No, not anything that the BB thinks is against their beliefs. The posters can post against me, using links or quotes, but I can't use professional documentations. Sad isn't it?...especially since we are on a *debate forum*...but that is their rules.

MEE

The rule is there MEE, beause when the Catholics were here they would post links to their websites which would be advertisements for the Catholic religion. BB does not exist to be an advertisement for other religions. If you start posting different URL's to many of your various websites you are doing nothing but promoting and advertising the Oneness religion on a Baptist Board. This is not an advertising agency for false religions. So debate what you have to say. If the documentation of what others have posted is wrong you should be able to refute it. It is your religion after all.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Nice.

Look, I am niether Oneness or Catholic, but lumping them under "false religions" is a bit dismissive and extreme, wouldn't you say?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
Nice.

Look, I am niether Oneness or Catholic, but lumping them under "false religions" is a bit dismissive and extreme, wouldn't you say?

Not really. Perhaps an adminstrator can explain the rule better than I. Keep in mind it is a Baptist Board. It is private, and the webmaster has the right to put whatever limitations he wants on it. It is not just other religions he does not allow, he does not allow anyone who comes with a link to sell things or peddle their goods, or any link that is in bad taste in anyway, any link that may advocate a questionable practice or lifestyle such as homosexuality, etc. There are many reasons why someone's URL may be deleted.
DHK

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MEE:
No, not anything that the BB thinks is against their beliefs. The posters can post against me, using links or quotes, but I can't use professional documentations. Sad isn't it?...especially since we are on a *debate forum*...but that is their rules.

MEE

The rule is there MEE, beause when the Catholics were here they would post links to their websites which would be advertisements for the Catholic religion. BB does not exist to be an advertisement for other religions. If you start posting different URL's to many of your various websites you are doing nothing but promoting and advertising the Oneness religion on a Baptist Board. This is not an advertising agency for false religions. So debate what you have to say. If the documentation of what others have posted is wrong you should be able to refute it. It is your religion after all.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]You, not the administrator, lumped them under false religions.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
You, not the administrator, lumped them under false religions.

Wrong again.
Don't arrogantly assume things you know nothing about.
Any and all Charismatic links will be deleted for their false teachings. Case closed.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Atestring
I have been in a meeting held by Watchman. They like to throw around buzz phrases such as another Gospel or another Jesus. If you don't get on their bandwagon and say "shiboleth" with their accent ,then you are not really a Christian in their opinion.

My idea of another Jesus comes from Jesus himself where he talks and warns about the false christs that will proliferate.

You just wait Marcia, at some point in you life you will think a thought that is outside of the "watchman box" and they will say that you believe in another Jesus.

I just couldn't wait to respond to this. For most of my adult life, I was "outside" all boxes! I was involved in Eastern religions, in the occult, I was a professional astrologer for over 8 yrs and taught astrology for over 5, I did astral travel, contact with the dead, past life regression, Eastern meditation, etc. , etc.

My view of who Jesus is based on God's word.

Look at what MEE said, that Jesus is the "flesh" of God the Father. Do you agree? That is not biblical. That is not the true, Biblical Jesus Christ.

Jesus, when he said "My Father," was referring either to God the Father or to Himself. Jesus was not the Holy Spirit. He said he would "another" comforter.

Here are links on the Trinity, in case someone needs them:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/robert_bowman/trinity.html

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Marcia:


My view of who Jesus is based on God's word.

Look at what MEE said, that Jesus is the "flesh" of God the Father. Do you agree? That is not biblical. That is not the true, Biblical Jesus Christ.

Yes Marcia, I did say it, but I like the way the Bible says it better!

1 Tim. 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1. Who was manifested in the flesh?...Jesus!
2. Who was justified in the Spirit?...Jesus!
3. Who was seen of angels?...Jesus!
4. Who was preached unto the Gentiles?...Jesus!
5. Who was believed on in the world?...Jesus!
6. Who was received up into glory?...Jesus!

Sounds like a Mighty big God to me..that is while He was ahhh!...in the flesh? I think that's right!

Night all!

MEE

 

[Dr. Bob]

Just a note: As Administrator of the BB, the policy of the Moderators on this issue were set and given to them. They are asked to enforce it.

No links to religious sites that promote any non-Baptist beliefs. As a Baptist site, I am sure you can understand (though probably not agree).

We thank everyone for their understanding. BTW, perceived attacks on a Moderator are not winked at. A word to the wise . . .

 

[music4Him]

Christian DEBATE Forums (All Christians) » Other Christian Denominations
Bob???? Then how do you suppose we debate the "other" Denoms?

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Posted by Atestring
I have been in a meeting held by Watchman. They like to throw around buzz phrases such as another Gospel or another Jesus. If you don't get on their bandwagon and say "shiboleth" with their accent ,then you are not really a Christian in their opinion.

My idea of another Jesus comes from Jesus himself where he talks and warns about the false christs that will proliferate.

You just wait Marcia, at some point in you life you will think a thought that is outside of the "watchman box" and they will say that you believe in another Jesus.

I just couldn't wait to respond to this. For most of my adult life, I was "outside" all boxes! I was involved in Eastern religions, in the occult, I was a professional astrologer for over 8 yrs and taught astrology for over 5, I did astral travel, contact with the dead, past life regression, Eastern meditation, etc. , etc.

My view of who Jesus is based on God's word.

Look at what MEE said, that Jesus is the "flesh" of God the Father. Do you agree? That is not biblical. That is not the true, Biblical Jesus Christ.

Jesus, when he said "My Father," was referring either to God the Father or to Himself. Jesus was not the Holy Spirit. He said he would "another" comforter.

Here are links on the Trinity, in case someone needs them:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/robert_bowman/trinity.html

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm </font>[/QUOTE]Marcia,
I am glad that you have been called out of darkness and into the marvelous light of the gospel. The issue has nothing to do with that.
I just have a problem with groups like Watchman calling a group that they disagree with , a cult.
They are straining at gnats and swallowing camels on this issue.
I am not asking you to agree with Oneness. I am not one myself. But calling these people a cult is not right.
When Groups call everyone that disagrees with them a cult then when a real cult comes along these groups have "cried wolf" and lost credibility and the cult prospers.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
You, not the administrator, lumped them under false religions.

Wrong again.
Don't arrogantly assume things you know nothing about.
Any and all Charismatic links will be deleted for their false teachings. Case closed. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not arrogant.