Originally posted by ONENESS:
Originally posted by Chemnitz:
[qb]Chemnitz this is so baby like but if you want, I'll get down my hands and knees to play LOL.Do you believe that Jehovah is the Father?
The above quote made by myself on October 23, 2002 09:19 AM Pg 20 if you need more help. That was the first time the question was asked.
Chemnitz, on October 23, 2002 12:28 PM Pg 20 you said
And then on October 23, 2002 01:51 PM pg 20 I askedno. YHWH is the true name of the Trinity.
I never got a responce from you so on October 28, 2002 12:07 PM pg 21 I asked again.So is that the Name that Matt 28:19 is decribeing, and Which person of the Trinity was speaking through Isaiah? Or would you just sum it up as it was the Father doing all the talking representing the Trinity in all of the Old Testament?
And as of then I still did not get an answer so on October 30, 2002 09:56 AM pg21 I aske the question againSo when do you want to tell me which person in the God head was speaking through Isaiah?
And Finaly I got a little bit of a responce out of you on October 30, 2002 10:18 AM pg 21 when you saidWHAT PERSON OF THE TRINITY WAS SPEAKING THROUGH ISAIAH"
HOW HARD IS THAT?
Look just to keep it simple dont reply to any other thing except for that one question. Either answer it or leave.
Thank you and good day.
But you never really did.I did answer your question, you just ignored it
So on October 30, 2002 01:01 PM pg21 I said
And then I went back and looked and noticed where you saidBTW. Will you show me where you answered my question about “Who was speaking through Jehovah
and then on October 30, 2002 01:33 PM Pg22 I saidposted October 30, 2002 01:33 PM
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quote:
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quote:
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no. YHWH is the true name of the Trinity
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So is that the Name that Matt 28:19 is decribeing, and Which person of the Trinity was speaking through Isaiah? Or would you just sum it up as it was the Father doing all the talking representing the Trinity in all of the Old Testament?
God bless
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So on October 30, 2002 01:51 PM pg 22 you saidOk here is where we got on that issue. But you never told me which person of YHWH was doing the talking through Isaiah. So...Which one was it?
But as i told you before you did not. ANd now I am stuck going back through the post looking for it and still I have not found it.I did answer your question in regards to Isaiah. You are just going to have to go back and look for it.
So on October 30, 2002 02:28 PM pg22 I said
And once more I am here asking you for the answer to the question that you said you gave me already that you never really did.You never answered the question about Isaiah. The only thing you said was that YHWH was the correct Name of The trinity.
So I asked Which person of YHWH was talking in Isaiah, you never gave me the Person or Persons that were speaking. You just gave me YHWH. So which Person was it?
And again the question. WHich person of YHWH was speaking through the Prophet Isaiah? And I will even make it easy for you. Even so that you want even have to bubble nothing in. Its multiple choice.
A.The Father
B.The Son
C.The Holy Ghost.
Good luck.
-
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Oneness Vs. Trinity Debate
- Thread starter ONENESS
- Start date
Concidering the English is only a translation, don't you think you are going in the wrong direction.Confirm what? It confirms that the Father, SOn, and Holy Ghost all decribe the One Name that Jesus was talking about.
Just read the translations used by diffrent versions of the bible. If you cant understand English how are you going to be able to understand Greek.
As for me. I just use the Greek to back up what The bible says in English. Its pretty simple. You should try it.
Chemnitz, looks to me that your rebuttle was not much of a rebuttle. I dont remember it, and if maybe you want to give me a page number I will go back and check it out, or you could just cut and Paste. thats pretty simple to.
You never answered the question about Isaiah. The only thing you said was that YHWH was the correct Name of The trinity.
So I asked Which person of YHWH was talking in Isaiah, you never gave me the Person or Persons that were speaking. You just gave me YHWH. So which Person was it?
I did answer who spoke through Isaiah. Keep searching you will find the answer. I'll give ya clue the answer was only a few pages ago.
Concidering the English is only a translation, don't you think you are going in the wrong direction.Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Confirm what? It confirms that the Father, SOn, and Holy Ghost all decribe the One Name that Jesus was talking about.
Just read the translations used by diffrent versions of the bible. If you cant understand English how are you going to be able to understand Greek.
As for me. I just use the Greek to back up what The bible says in English. Its pretty simple. You should try it.
Chemnitz, looks to me that your rebuttle was not much of a rebuttle. I dont remember it, and if maybe you want to give me a page number I will go back and check it out, or you could just cut and Paste. thats pretty simple to.
You never answered the question about Isaiah. The only thing you said was that YHWH was the correct Name of The trinity.
So I asked Which person of YHWH was talking in Isaiah, you never gave me the Person or Persons that were speaking. You just gave me YHWH. So which Person was it?
I did answer who spoke through Isaiah. Keep searching you will find the answer. I'll give ya clue the answer was only a few pages ago.</font>[/QUOTE]Mr. Chemnitz, Did you read the topic prior the your last post? haha...man that was some work. The only thing you said was that YHWH spoke through Isaiah.
Did I miss it? LOL, give me a hint...a better one.
Chemnitz where are youuuuuuuu?
Still waiting on the answer to the question..
Dualhunter, since Chemnitz does not want to answer the question feel free.
Still waiting on the answer to the question..
Dualhunter, since Chemnitz does not want to answer the question feel free.
I am assumeing that you believe like Chemnitz Correct? Do you believe that YHWH and YHVA are the same person?quote:
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Originally posted by Dualhunter:
8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After (13) glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the (14) apple of His eye.
9 "For behold, I will (15) wave My hand over them so that they will be (16) plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. - Zechariah 2:8-9 NASB
The LORD (YHVH) of hosts says that the LORD (YHVH) of hosts has sent Him.
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Care to deal with this one?
Waiting for you to find the answer.Chemnitz where are youuuuuuuu?
Still waiting on the answer to the question..
Dualhunter
New Member
In German, "w" is pronounced "v". Appartently the spelling YHWH comes from German schollarship and so the correct transliteration into English is YHVH though it is often still written as YHWH. Basically it is the Hebrew letters "yod", "he", "vav" (again the name of this letter is often written as "waw") and another "he" and it is from this that we get Yahveh which was probably how it was pronounced. Yahveh is the personal name of the God of the Old Testament, whom the Jews claimed as their God.
54 Jesus answered, "(91) If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; (92) it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'; - John 8:54 NASB
The Son says that if He glorifies Himself, His glory is nothing, it is His Father who glorifies Him. If the Father were the Son and the Son the Father, Jesus would be glorifying Himself which He Himself said would be nothing. As God, the Son is refered to in the Old Testament as YHVH, just as His Father is (YHVH in most cases refers to the Father whom as already mentioned, the Jews claimed as their God). The person of God who was speaking through the Prophet Isaiah was the Holy Spirit.
The Father is head and thus preminent in the Godhead. He is the voice from heaven who declared that Jesus was His Son. He is YHVH of hosts who sent YHVH of hosts after glory.
3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the (5) head of every man, and (6) the man is the head of a woman, and God is the (7) head of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 NASB
The Son reveals the Father. He is YHVH of hosts who has been sent after glory by YHVH of hosts.
22 "(1) All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and (2) no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." - Luke 10:22
The Holy Spirit is the Helper whom YHVH of hosts has sent from YHVH of hosts. He convicts the world of sin and righteousness and guides into all truth. It is He who spoke through the Prophets, He is the Spirit of YHVH and Himself YHVH.
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the (12) Helper will not come to you; but if I go, (13) I will send Him to you.
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, (14) because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning (15) righteousness, because (16) I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 (17) and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will (20) glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "(21) All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. - John 16:7-15 NASB
36 "David himself said in the Holy Spirit,
'(29) THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET."' - Mark 12:36 NASB
16 "Brethren, (34) the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, (35) who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. - Acts 1:16 NASB
25 who (33) by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
'(34) WHY DID THE [1] GENTILES RAGE,
AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS? - Acts 4:25 NASB
2
"(3) The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue. - 2 Samuel 23:2 NASB
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and (19) anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and (20) the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. - 1 Samuel 16:13 NASB
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has (3) Satan filled your heart to lie (4) to the Holy Spirit and to (5) keep back some of the price of the land?
4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but (6) to God." - Acts 5:3-4 NASB
54 Jesus answered, "(91) If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; (92) it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'; - John 8:54 NASB
The Son says that if He glorifies Himself, His glory is nothing, it is His Father who glorifies Him. If the Father were the Son and the Son the Father, Jesus would be glorifying Himself which He Himself said would be nothing. As God, the Son is refered to in the Old Testament as YHVH, just as His Father is (YHVH in most cases refers to the Father whom as already mentioned, the Jews claimed as their God). The person of God who was speaking through the Prophet Isaiah was the Holy Spirit.
The Father is head and thus preminent in the Godhead. He is the voice from heaven who declared that Jesus was His Son. He is YHVH of hosts who sent YHVH of hosts after glory.
3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the (5) head of every man, and (6) the man is the head of a woman, and God is the (7) head of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 NASB
The Son reveals the Father. He is YHVH of hosts who has been sent after glory by YHVH of hosts.
22 "(1) All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and (2) no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." - Luke 10:22
The Holy Spirit is the Helper whom YHVH of hosts has sent from YHVH of hosts. He convicts the world of sin and righteousness and guides into all truth. It is He who spoke through the Prophets, He is the Spirit of YHVH and Himself YHVH.
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the (12) Helper will not come to you; but if I go, (13) I will send Him to you.
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, (14) because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning (15) righteousness, because (16) I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 (17) and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will (20) glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "(21) All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. - John 16:7-15 NASB
36 "David himself said in the Holy Spirit,
'(29) THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET."' - Mark 12:36 NASB
16 "Brethren, (34) the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, (35) who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. - Acts 1:16 NASB
25 who (33) by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
'(34) WHY DID THE [1] GENTILES RAGE,
AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS? - Acts 4:25 NASB
2
"(3) The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue. - 2 Samuel 23:2 NASB
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and (19) anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and (20) the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. - 1 Samuel 16:13 NASB
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has (3) Satan filled your heart to lie (4) to the Holy Spirit and to (5) keep back some of the price of the land?
4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but (6) to God." - Acts 5:3-4 NASB
Ok, Now lets look at it like this is the English Translation to make sure my understanding is correct.Originally posted by Dualhunter:
In German, "w" is pronounced "v". Appartently the spelling YHWH comes from German schollarship and so the correct transliteration into English is YHVH though it is often still written as YHWH. Basically it is the Hebrew letters "yod", "he", "vav" (again the name of this letter is often written as "waw") and another "he" and it is from this that we get Yahveh which was probably how it was pronounced. Yahveh is the personal name of the God of the Old Testament, whom the Jews claimed as their God.
54 Jesus answered, "(91) If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; (92) it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'; - John 8:54 NASB
The Son says that if He glorifies Himself, His glory is nothing, it is His Father who glorifies Him. If the Father were the Son and the Son the Father, Jesus would be glorifying Himself which He Himself said would be nothing. As God, the Son is refered to in the Old Testament as YHVH, just as His Father is (YHVH in most cases refers to the Father whom as already mentioned, the Jews claimed as their God). The person of God who was speaking through the Prophet Isaiah was the Holy Spirit.
The Father is head and thus preminent in the Godhead. He is the voice from heaven who declared that Jesus was His Son. He is YHVH of hosts who sent YHVH of hosts after glory.
3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the (5) head of every man, and (6) the man is the head of a woman, and God is the (7) head of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 NASB
The Son reveals the Father. He is YHVH of hosts who has been sent after glory by YHVH of hosts.
22 "(1) All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and (2) no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." - Luke 10:22
The Holy Spirit is the Helper whom YHVH of hosts has sent from YHVH of hosts. He convicts the world of sin and righteousness and guides into all truth. It is He who spoke through the Prophets, He is the Spirit of YHVH and Himself YHVH.
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the (12) Helper will not come to you; but if I go, (13) I will send Him to you.
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, (14) because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning (15) righteousness, because (16) I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 (17) and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will (20) glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "(21) All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. - John 16:7-15 NASB
36 "David himself said in the Holy Spirit,
'(29) THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET."' - Mark 12:36 NASB
16 "Brethren, (34) the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, (35) who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. - Acts 1:16 NASB
25 who (33) by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
'(34) WHY DID THE [1] GENTILES RAGE,
AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS? - Acts 4:25 NASB
2
"(3) The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue. - 2 Samuel 23:2 NASB
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and (19) anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and (20) the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. - 1 Samuel 16:13 NASB
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has (3) Satan filled your heart to lie (4) to the Holy Spirit and to (5) keep back some of the price of the land?
4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but (6) to God." - Acts 5:3-4 NASB
You believe that the "Father" (YHVH of hosts)is the head. Correct?The Father is head and thus preminent in the Godhead.
Now YHVH means Lord correct?
Dualhunter, Please dont try to explain it yet it will only confuse me, so just answer with a yes or no. Thank you.
Was this the only person of the Godhead who spake through Isaiah? And did the Father tell him to say these things?The person of God who was speaking through the Prophet Isaiah was the Holy Spirit.
Im sorry I might have a hard time understanding at first. So are my assumptions correct?
God bless
Waiting for you to find the answer.</font>[/QUOTE]Sir I dont have to find it, I know it.Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Chemnitz where are youuuuuuuu?
Still waiting on the answer to the question..
Chemnitz, I dont have time to play hide and go seek with you. If you dont want to answer it thats fine. You never answered it you dance around it.
I asked the question to you. Someone else answered it in an hour where its taken you almost two weeks now.
Sorry but I cant "Play" with you anylonger my child.
Again, I will say it like I said it before. Either answer the question, show me where you answered the question or dismiss yourself from this discussion.
God bless
[ October 31, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
Dualhunter
New Member
Yes or no answer: NO
Details:
YHVH does not mean Lord. In most English translations it represented as LORD (all caps). Written Hebrew did not have vowels originally and so the texts read YHVH (with the Hebrew characters not the Roman characters). Latter scribes began to use points to show the vowels because most people could no longer read the original vowel-less Hebrew and could not pronounce the words. The Jews consider the Divine name to be so Holy that they will not pronounce it (perhaps you seen English speaking Jews write "God" as "G-d") and so the scribes put the vowel points for "adonai" (master or lord) on YHVH. From this we get Jehovah but schollars believe that the correct pronounciation would have been something like "Yahveh". The convention that most English translations use for translating YHVH is LORD but YHVH does not mean lord, adonai means lord which is why YHVH is translated as God when preceded by adonai. So if Yahveh is alone it is translated LORD (not in all translations, I just refering to the ones that follow the convention), but if it says Adonai Yahveh it is translated LORD GOD (Yahveh Elohim and Yah Yahveh are also translated as LORD GOD). In French, YHVH is usually translated as "l'Eternel" instead of "SEINGEUR" (LORD in French) so as you can see, while LORD is the convention in English it is not in all languages because YHVH does not mean LORD but rather is the personal name of God in Hebrew. Yahveh also sounds very similar (but not exactly the same) to the Hebrew for "I am".
It is the Holy Spirit who speaks through people, the Father and Son both agree with the Spirit. The Father is head and so the Son does what the Father does (John 5:19), and the Spirit speaks what He hears (John 16:13). Both the Father and Son have spoken to people, but it was the Spirit who spoke through the Prophets.
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, (16) the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. - John 5:19 NASB
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. - John 16:13 NASB
Details:
YHVH does not mean Lord. In most English translations it represented as LORD (all caps). Written Hebrew did not have vowels originally and so the texts read YHVH (with the Hebrew characters not the Roman characters). Latter scribes began to use points to show the vowels because most people could no longer read the original vowel-less Hebrew and could not pronounce the words. The Jews consider the Divine name to be so Holy that they will not pronounce it (perhaps you seen English speaking Jews write "God" as "G-d") and so the scribes put the vowel points for "adonai" (master or lord) on YHVH. From this we get Jehovah but schollars believe that the correct pronounciation would have been something like "Yahveh". The convention that most English translations use for translating YHVH is LORD but YHVH does not mean lord, adonai means lord which is why YHVH is translated as God when preceded by adonai. So if Yahveh is alone it is translated LORD (not in all translations, I just refering to the ones that follow the convention), but if it says Adonai Yahveh it is translated LORD GOD (Yahveh Elohim and Yah Yahveh are also translated as LORD GOD). In French, YHVH is usually translated as "l'Eternel" instead of "SEINGEUR" (LORD in French) so as you can see, while LORD is the convention in English it is not in all languages because YHVH does not mean LORD but rather is the personal name of God in Hebrew. Yahveh also sounds very similar (but not exactly the same) to the Hebrew for "I am".
It is the Holy Spirit who speaks through people, the Father and Son both agree with the Spirit. The Father is head and so the Son does what the Father does (John 5:19), and the Spirit speaks what He hears (John 16:13). Both the Father and Son have spoken to people, but it was the Spirit who spoke through the Prophets.
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, (16) the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. - John 5:19 NASB
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. - John 16:13 NASB
You did not see it because you do not understand the concept of context. I thank you for proving my point.
I said all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit because it is he who testifies.
quite frankly, I think your name calling was being more childish then my insisting you actually go back and read my posts.
[ October 31, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Chemnitz ]
I said all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit because it is he who testifies.
quite frankly, I think your name calling was being more childish then my insisting you actually go back and read my posts.
[ October 31, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Chemnitz ]
So you are saying that the Holy Spirit is the one who spoke through the prophets in the old T? Yes, or no?Originally posted by Chemnitz:
You did not see it because you do not understand the concept of context. I thank you for proving my point.
I said all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit because it is he who testifies.
quite frankly, I think your name calling was being more childish then my insisting you actually go back and read my posts.
Why could you not just say that? Nevermind dont answer that.
Dualhunter
New Member
The Father is the one God, the Son is the one God and the Holy Spirit is the one God, all three persons are in agreement as the three are united in the Godhead which is why the will of the Son and the Spirit is to do the will of the Father who is the head. God does not contradict Himself and so the persons of the Godhead will always agree with one another in their unity.Originally posted by ONENESS:
Dualhunter... are you saying that the HOly Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father is asking him to tell?
Or is the Holy Ghost acting on his own free will?
God bless
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, (16) the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. - John 5:19 NASB
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. - John 16:13 NASB
The Father is the one God, the Son is the one God and the Holy Spirit is the one God, all three persons are in agreement as the three are united in the Godhead which is why the will of the Son and the Spirit is to do the will of the Father who is the head. God does not contradict Himself and so the persons of the Godhead will always agree with one another in their unity.Originally posted by Dualhunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
Dualhunter... are you saying that the HOly Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father is asking him to tell?
Or is the Holy Ghost acting on his own free will?
God bless
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, (16) the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. - John 5:19 NASB
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. - John 16:13 NASB</font>[/QUOTE]Ok just to make sure I am understanding you let me ask this last thing about this.
The answer to the second question “Was the holy Ghost acting on his on free will when he was speaking though the prophets” would be “no”, Correct?
And the Answer to the first question “Are you saying that the Holy Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father wants him to say” would be “yes”, correct?
Please respond with a yes or a No.
Thank you so much for you attitude in response to my questions.
God bless
Dualhunter
New Member
"The answer to the second question “Was the holy Ghost acting on his on free will when he was speaking though the prophets” would be “no”, Correct?"
The answer would be yes, not no. The Spirit's will always agrees with the Father's so His free will, will always agree with the Father's will. The Spirit freely does the Father's will because it is the Spirit's will to do the will of the Father just as it is the Son's will to freely do the will of the Father.
"And the Answer to the first question “Are you saying that the Holy Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father wants him to say” would be “yes”, correct?"
Yes, would be the most accurate answer. The will of the Father and the will of the Spirit agree, so it's not as if the Spirit only spoke through the Prophets because He was told to, He did it because His will was to speak as His will agreed with the Father. If it is the Father's will that the Spirit speak, it is the Spirit's will that He speak.
Care to answers some questions now rather than simply asking more questions?
The answer would be yes, not no. The Spirit's will always agrees with the Father's so His free will, will always agree with the Father's will. The Spirit freely does the Father's will because it is the Spirit's will to do the will of the Father just as it is the Son's will to freely do the will of the Father.
"And the Answer to the first question “Are you saying that the Holy Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father wants him to say” would be “yes”, correct?"
Yes, would be the most accurate answer. The will of the Father and the will of the Spirit agree, so it's not as if the Spirit only spoke through the Prophets because He was told to, He did it because His will was to speak as His will agreed with the Father. If it is the Father's will that the Spirit speak, it is the Spirit's will that He speak.
Care to answers some questions now rather than simply asking more questions?
I will be happy to try and answer any question you have. But let me say this.Originally posted by Dualhunter:
"The answer to the second question “Was the holy Ghost acting on his on free will when he was speaking though the prophets” would be “no”, Correct?"
The answer would be yes, not no. The Spirit's will always agrees with the Father's so His free will, will always agree with the Father's will. The Spirit freely does the Father's will because it is the Spirit's will to do the will of the Father just as it is the Son's will to freely do the will of the Father.
"And the Answer to the first question “Are you saying that the Holy Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father wants him to say” would be “yes”, correct?"
Yes, would be the most accurate answer. The will of the Father and the will of the Spirit agree, so it's not as if the Spirit only spoke through the Prophets because He was told to, He did it because His will was to speak as His will agreed with the Father. If it is the Father's will that the Spirit speak, it is the Spirit's will that He speak.
Care to answers some questions now rather than simply asking more questions?
I wanted to get accurate answers from you and Chemnitz so I could be accurate in my response. I just want to show you now, that you have just proved exactly what I have been trying to share with you.
You said “The Spirit was acting on his on free will b/c his own free will is to do the Fathers will, and you also said that the Sprit will is the same as the Fathers will.
In Isaiah 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
The Holy Ghost said through the prophet Isaiah b/c it’s the will of the father “That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear”
Then we go to the new testament to find in Phi 2:9-
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Guess what Name describes the Holy Ghost now? In Isaiah The Holy Ghost said that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Then in Phil we are given the Name.+
God Bless
Dualhunter
New Member
You've completely ignored this:
8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After (13) glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the (14) apple of His eye.
9 "For behold, I will (15) wave My hand over them so that they will be (16) plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. - Zechariah 2:8-9 NASB
The LORD (YHVH) of hosts says that the LORD (YHVH) of hosts has sent Him.
I don't know if you were thinking that I would forget about it while you asked more questions but as you can see, I haven't forgotten about so go ahead and attempt to explain it.
8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After (13) glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the (14) apple of His eye.
9 "For behold, I will (15) wave My hand over them so that they will be (16) plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. - Zechariah 2:8-9 NASB
The LORD (YHVH) of hosts says that the LORD (YHVH) of hosts has sent Him.
I don't know if you were thinking that I would forget about it while you asked more questions but as you can see, I haven't forgotten about so go ahead and attempt to explain it.
Whats the question?Originally posted by Dualhunter:
You've completely ignored this:
8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After (13) glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the (14) apple of His eye.
9 "For behold, I will (15) wave My hand over them so that they will be (16) plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. - Zechariah 2:8-9 NASB
The LORD (YHVH) of hosts says that the LORD (YHVH) of hosts has sent Him.
I don't know if you were thinking that I would forget about it while you asked more questions but as you can see, I haven't forgotten about so go ahead and attempt to explain it.
I did not know that there was a question about it. I thought you were using this to show me who was speaking through the prophets.
Did you see the above post? Any comments?
[ November 01, 2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
Dualhunter
New Member
Who said any thing about a question? The LORD of hosts was sent by the LORD of hosts. The LORD of hosts is represented twice, once as sender and a second time as the one who is sent. Two persons are described here, the sender and the sent. Who do you think they are?Originally posted by ONENESS:
I did not know that there was a question about it. I thought you were using this to show me who was speaking through the prophets.
Did you see the above post? Any comments?
Your previous post simply shows that you do not understand the unity of the three person in the Godhead, nor do you understand how the persons interact. In the given example involving Isaiah, the will of the Spirit was to do the will of the Father and say what the Father said. The will of the Son is also to do the will of the Father and it is to the Son that the Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth which is why every knee will bow to Him and confess Him as Lord.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Dualhunter:
Your previous post simply shows that you do not understand the unity of the three person in the Godhead, nor do you understand how the persons interact. In the given example involving Isaiah, the will of the Spirit was to do the will of the Father and say what the Father said. The will of the Son is also to do the will of the Father and it is to the Son that the Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth which is why every knee will bow to Him and confess Him as Lord.[/QUOTE]
And they do that (bow and confess) at the Name of Jesus.
It is quite simple to see that the Name of the Father is Jesus. Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation" Jehovah is the Father, the one true God.
It all goes back to Matt 28:19 Jesus said to baptize in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
He did not say baptize in the "Names". God was not giving us three names to baptize in. He was identifying on Name with the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And we know that Name to be Jesus. That is why the Apostles baptized in the Name of Jesus.
I’m sorry we don’t see eye to eye, but I believe in the Absolute oneness of God. I don’t believe that God is divided. I don’t believe that there is none other beside him. I believe that Jehovah of the Old Testament made himself flesh and revealed him self to Israel as the person and Name of Jesus Christ.
You tell me why there is so much talk about “The Name of Jesus”. I asked Chemnitz but he never answered. What does that Name mean to you? What does the bible say about that Name?
God bless
Who said any thing about a question? The LORD of hosts was sent by the LORD of hosts. The LORD of hosts is represented twice, once as sender and a second time as the one who is sent. Two persons are described here, the sender and the sent. Who do you think they are?Originally posted by ONENESS:
I did not know that there was a question about it. I thought you were using this to show me who was speaking through the prophets.
Did you see the above post? Any comments?
Your previous post simply shows that you do not understand the unity of the three person in the Godhead, nor do you understand how the persons interact. In the given example involving Isaiah, the will of the Spirit was to do the will of the Father and say what the Father said. The will of the Son is also to do the will of the Father and it is to the Son that the Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth which is why every knee will bow to Him and confess Him as Lord.[/QUOTE]
You are right I do not understand the Trinity. No offence to you my friend, but it makes no since to me.Your previous post simply shows that you do not understand the unity of the three person in the Godhead, nor do you understand how the persons interact. In the given example involving Isaiah, the will of the Spirit was to do the will of the Father and say what the Father said. The will of the Son is also to do the will of the Father and it is to the Son that the Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth which is why every knee will bow to Him and confess Him as
Ok so the Father said "That unto me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess"In the given example involving Isaiah, the will of the Spirit was to do the will of the Father and say what the Father said
And they do that (bow and confess) at the Name of Jesus.
It is quite simple to see that the Name of the Father is Jesus. Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation" Jehovah is the Father, the one true God.
It all goes back to Matt 28:19 Jesus said to baptize in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
He did not say baptize in the "Names". God was not giving us three names to baptize in. He was identifying on Name with the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And we know that Name to be Jesus. That is why the Apostles baptized in the Name of Jesus.
I’m sorry we don’t see eye to eye, but I believe in the Absolute oneness of God. I don’t believe that God is divided. I don’t believe that there is none other beside him. I believe that Jehovah of the Old Testament made himself flesh and revealed him self to Israel as the person and Name of Jesus Christ.
You tell me why there is so much talk about “The Name of Jesus”. I asked Chemnitz but he never answered. What does that Name mean to you? What does the bible say about that Name?
God bless