Oneness Vs. Trinity Debate

Concidering the English is only a translation, don't you think you are going in the wrong direction.

I did answer who spoke through Isaiah. Keep searching you will find the answer. I'll give ya clue the answer was only a few pages ago.

 

Waiting for you to find the answer.

 

In German, "w" is pronounced "v". Appartently the spelling YHWH comes from German schollarship and so the correct transliteration into English is YHVH though it is often still written as YHWH. Basically it is the Hebrew letters "yod", "he", "vav" (again the name of this letter is often written as "waw") and another "he" and it is from this that we get Yahveh which was probably how it was pronounced. Yahveh is the personal name of the God of the Old Testament, whom the Jews claimed as their God.

54 Jesus answered, "(91) If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; (92) it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'; - John 8:54 NASB

The Son says that if He glorifies Himself, His glory is nothing, it is His Father who glorifies Him. If the Father were the Son and the Son the Father, Jesus would be glorifying Himself which He Himself said would be nothing. As God, the Son is refered to in the Old Testament as YHVH, just as His Father is (YHVH in most cases refers to the Father whom as already mentioned, the Jews claimed as their God). The person of God who was speaking through the Prophet Isaiah was the Holy Spirit.

The Father is head and thus preminent in the Godhead. He is the voice from heaven who declared that Jesus was His Son. He is YHVH of hosts who sent YHVH of hosts after glory.

3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the (5) head of every man, and (6) the man is the head of a woman, and God is the (7) head of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 NASB

The Son reveals the Father. He is YHVH of hosts who has been sent after glory by YHVH of hosts.

22 "(1) All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and (2) no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." - Luke 10:22

The Holy Spirit is the Helper whom YHVH of hosts has sent from YHVH of hosts. He convicts the world of sin and righteousness and guides into all truth. It is He who spoke through the Prophets, He is the Spirit of YHVH and Himself YHVH.

7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the (12) Helper will not come to you; but if I go, (13) I will send Him to you.
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, (14) because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning (15) righteousness, because (16) I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 (17) and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will (20) glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 "(21) All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. - John 16:7-15 NASB

36 "David himself said in the Holy Spirit,
'(29) THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET."' - Mark 12:36 NASB

16 "Brethren, (34) the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, (35) who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. - Acts 1:16 NASB

25 who (33) by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
'(34) WHY DID THE [1] GENTILES RAGE,
AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS? - Acts 4:25 NASB

2
"(3) The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue. - 2 Samuel 23:2 NASB

13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and (19) anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and (20) the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. - 1 Samuel 16:13 NASB

3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has (3) Satan filled your heart to lie (4) to the Holy Spirit and to (5) keep back some of the price of the land?
4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but (6) to God." - Acts 5:3-4 NASB

 

Yes or no answer: NO

Details:
YHVH does not mean Lord. In most English translations it represented as LORD (all caps). Written Hebrew did not have vowels originally and so the texts read YHVH (with the Hebrew characters not the Roman characters). Latter scribes began to use points to show the vowels because most people could no longer read the original vowel-less Hebrew and could not pronounce the words. The Jews consider the Divine name to be so Holy that they will not pronounce it (perhaps you seen English speaking Jews write "God" as "G-d") and so the scribes put the vowel points for "adonai" (master or lord) on YHVH. From this we get Jehovah but schollars believe that the correct pronounciation would have been something like "Yahveh". The convention that most English translations use for translating YHVH is LORD but YHVH does not mean lord, adonai means lord which is why YHVH is translated as God when preceded by adonai. So if Yahveh is alone it is translated LORD (not in all translations, I just refering to the ones that follow the convention), but if it says Adonai Yahveh it is translated LORD GOD (Yahveh Elohim and Yah Yahveh are also translated as LORD GOD). In French, YHVH is usually translated as "l'Eternel" instead of "SEINGEUR" (LORD in French) so as you can see, while LORD is the convention in English it is not in all languages because YHVH does not mean LORD but rather is the personal name of God in Hebrew. Yahveh also sounds very similar (but not exactly the same) to the Hebrew for "I am".

It is the Holy Spirit who speaks through people, the Father and Son both agree with the Spirit. The Father is head and so the Son does what the Father does (John 5:19), and the Spirit speaks what He hears (John 16:13). Both the Father and Son have spoken to people, but it was the Spirit who spoke through the Prophets.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, (16) the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. - John 5:19 NASB

13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. - John 16:13 NASB

 

You did not see it because you do not understand the concept of context. I thank you for proving my point.

I said all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit because it is he who testifies.

quite frankly, I think your name calling was being more childish then my insisting you actually go back and read my posts.

[ October 31, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Chemnitz ]

 

The Father is the one God, the Son is the one God and the Holy Spirit is the one God, all three persons are in agreement as the three are united in the Godhead which is why the will of the Son and the Spirit is to do the will of the Father who is the head. God does not contradict Himself and so the persons of the Godhead will always agree with one another in their unity.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, (16) the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. - John 5:19 NASB

13 "But when He, (18) the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (19) guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. - John 16:13 NASB

 

"The answer to the second question “Was the holy Ghost acting on his on free will when he was speaking though the prophets” would be “no”, Correct?"

The answer would be yes, not no. The Spirit's will always agrees with the Father's so His free will, will always agree with the Father's will. The Spirit freely does the Father's will because it is the Spirit's will to do the will of the Father just as it is the Son's will to freely do the will of the Father.

"And the Answer to the first question “Are you saying that the Holy Ghost speaks through the Prophets b/c that is what the Father wants him to say” would be “yes”, correct?"

Yes, would be the most accurate answer. The will of the Father and the will of the Spirit agree, so it's not as if the Spirit only spoke through the Prophets because He was told to, He did it because His will was to speak as His will agreed with the Father. If it is the Father's will that the Spirit speak, it is the Spirit's will that He speak.

Care to answers some questions now rather than simply asking more questions?

 

You've completely ignored this:

8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After (13) glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the (14) apple of His eye.
9 "For behold, I will (15) wave My hand over them so that they will be (16) plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. - Zechariah 2:8-9 NASB

The LORD (YHVH) of hosts says that the LORD (YHVH) of hosts has sent Him.

I don't know if you were thinking that I would forget about it while you asked more questions but as you can see, I haven't forgotten about so go ahead and attempt to explain it.

 

Who said any thing about a question? The LORD of hosts was sent by the LORD of hosts. The LORD of hosts is represented twice, once as sender and a second time as the one who is sent. Two persons are described here, the sender and the sent. Who do you think they are?

Your previous post simply shows that you do not understand the unity of the three person in the Godhead, nor do you understand how the persons interact. In the given example involving Isaiah, the will of the Spirit was to do the will of the Father and say what the Father said. The will of the Son is also to do the will of the Father and it is to the Son that the Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth which is why every knee will bow to Him and confess Him as Lord.