Originally posted by Lorelei:
God bless
Who then is the Lamb
~Lorelei[/QB][/QUOTE]
Lorelei, I am going to be honest with you. You are right in the fact that these are visions.
And you and I know that almost everything in Revelation is symbolic.
Lorelei, I was going to try to put this in my own words. I could do it but sometimes i have a hard time putting into words what I want to say.
I'm going to post you a piece from the "Oneness of God" by David K. Bernard. And let me say again from the onset that "The Oneness of God" Is not my bible. But when I do have questions on things I use it for refrence. Let me also say this. I also do searches on the net to see what other peoples views are on things as well. ie. a trinitarians view.
The Lamb In Revelation 5
Revelation 5:1 describes One on the throne in heaven with a book (scroll) in His right hand. Then verses 6-7 depict a Lamb who comes and takes the book out of the right hand of the One that sits on the throne. Does this mean there are two persons of God? No. Once again, we must remember that the Book of Revelation is highly symbolic. In fact, we know the passage in question is symbolic. First, John did not see the invisible Spirit of God, because John himself said no man has ever done that (John 1:18, I John 4:12). In fact, no man can see God (I Timothy 6:16). Revelation 5:5 says a "Lion" would open the book, but in verse 6 John saw a "Lamb" instead. Verse 6 says the Lamb was slain but yet it moved. It had seven eyes, which symbolize the seven spirits or the sevenfold Spirit of God (verse 6) and the omniscience of God (Proverbs 15:3). The Lamb had seven horns, which signify the fulness of God's power or God's omnipotence, because horns in the Bible usually symbolize power. (See Zechariah 1:18-19; Revelation 17:12-17.) All of the description of this scene demonstrates the symbolic nature of the passage. To understand it we must find out who the One on the throne is and who the Lamb is.
Revelation 4:2 and 8 describe the One on the throne as the "Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." Yet, in Revelation 1:8 Jesus describes Himself as "the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (See 1:11-18 and 22:12-16 for further proof that Jesus is the speaker of 1:8.) Also the One on the throne is the Judge (Revelation 20:11-12), and we know that Jesus will be the Judge of all (John 5:22, 27; Romans 2:16; 14:10-11). Therefore, we can conclude that the One on the throne is Jesus in all His power and deity.
The Lamb is the Son of God - Jesus Christ in His humanity, particularly in His sacrificial role. The New Testament identifies Jesus as the Lamb who offered His blood for our sins (John 1:36; I Peter 1:19). That is why Revelation 5:6 describes the Lamb as slain. God could not and did not die; only the humanity of Jesus died. So the Lamb represents Jesus only in His humanity as a sacrifice for sin. The rest of chapter 5 also proves this by describing the Lamb as our Redeemer.
That this Lamb is not merely an ordinary human is evident since He has the fulness of God's Spirit, including omniscience and omnipresence (verse 6). He has other roles as the Lion of the tribe of Judah and as the Root of David (verse 5). The Lion denotes Christ's kingly role and His descent from King David. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah (Matthew 1:1-3; Luke 3:33), which was the tribe of royalty from the time of David. The lion is the symbol of Judah as ruler (Genesis 49:9-10). The Root of David alludes to Christ's role as David's source (Creator) and David's God.
Another fact supports our point that the Lamb represents Jesus in His humanity rather than as a second person in the Godhead. The reason the Lamb appears is to open the book held by God. Many interpret this book to be the title deed of redemption. Others see it as symbolic of the mysteries and plans of God. Either way, it required a human being to open, for God did not redeem us nor did He reveal Himself to us in His role as the transcendent God. He used His manifestation in human flesh as the means both to reveal Himself and to be our kinsman redeemer. (See Leviticus 25:25, 47-49.) So the Lamb represents the humanity of Christ.
Many prominent trinitarian scholars agree that Revelation 5 is symbolic and does not describe God the Father on the throne and God the Son standing by the throne. The Pulpit Commentary identifies the One on the throne as the Triune God, [28] and the Lamb as the Christ in His human capacity. It states, "The Son in his human capacity, as indicated by his sacrificial form of the Lamb, can take and reveal the mysteries of the eternal Godhead in which he, as God, has part." [29] Thus, even in the eyes of trinitarian scholars, this scene is not an indication of a trinity in the Godhead.
We can conclude that the vision in Revelation 5 symbolically depicts the two natures and two roles of Jesus Christ. As Father, Judge, Creator, and King, He sits upon the throne; for in His deity He is the Lord God Almighty. As the Son, He appears as a slain lamb; for in His humanity He is the sacrifice slain for our sins. John did not see the invisible Spirit of God, but he did see a vision symbolically portraying Jesus on the throne in His role as God and as a lamb in His role as the Son of God sacrificed for sin.
If a person insists upon literalizing this demonstrably symbolic passage, then he would need to conclude that John still did not see two persons of God, but rather that he saw one God on the throne and a real lamb near the throne. This is not logical, but it reveals that the attempts of trinitarians to make the passage a proof text for a trinity is futile.
Other verses in Revelation make it clear that that Lamb is not a separate person from God. In particular, Revelation 22:1 and 3 speak of "the throne of God and of the Lamb," referring to the one throne of 4:2 and 5:1. After mentioning "God and the Lamb," Revelation 22:3 goes on to talk about "his servants," and verse 4 refers to "his face" and "his name." The Lamb and the glory of God light the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:23), yet the Lord God is the light (Revelation 22:5). So, "God and the Lamb" is one being. The phrase refers to Jesus Christ and designates His dual nature.
We conclude that Revelation 5, symbolic in nature, reveals the oneness of God. It describes One on the throne, but also describes a lion, a root, and a Iamb. Does this description reveal four in the Godhead? Clearly not. Rather, there is only One on the throne. The lion, the root, and the lamb all represent in symbolic form the characteristics and qualifications of the One worthy to open the seals of the book. The lion tells us He is the King from the tribe of Judah. The root tells us He is the Creator. The lamb tells us He is God incarnate and our sacrifice. It is only in this last role that He can be our Redeemer and can open the book. Thus, Revelation 5 teaches there is one God and this one God came in flesh as the Lamb (the Son) to reveal Himself to man and to redeem man from sin.
