Opposing the 7th day Sabbath of the Lord Thy God

[BobRyan]

Indeed --

Tthank you for participating. This has been particularly useful to me in comiing up with that focus on the list in post 115 and the one quoted in 112.

For some reason I don't have the motivation to drill "down the carpet" like that on these topics without a serious bible student such as yourself on the other side looking for every possible alternative.

I often speak of the benefit that these exchanges have for the "unbiased object reader" but then I forget to mention just how much benefit I too get out of them as a contributor.

Again - thank you for taking the time here, and God's blessings be upon you.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TCGreek]

Bob, I had a good debate and have learned a lot from the opposing side.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

TC Greek:
"We have two clear references to Sunday worship (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:1, 2)."

GE
You have two? I asked you about the MANY occasions of actual Sabbath Day worship of many Christians, and you responded and said so much things I have left out.

But what do you have in these two texts for Sunday worship? You say we have two references to Sunday worship. You argue in a circle; you prove what you must prove, with what you must prove. The learned okes have a word for this sillyness.

YOU HAVE NOTHING in these two text for or about or referring to 'Sunday worship' in the early Christian Community - NOTHING.

I told you in Acts 20:7 Paul did exactly what YOU, say he did when he went to the synagogues - the church buildings of his time - to squabble with the Jews-- 'dialegomai'. Sowhat makes the difference, what makes the quarrels, 'worship', all of a sudden when for once it -allegedly- happened on Sunday?

Then, I have plenty time told on this forum there is no such thing in Acts 2 as what for a Christian is to "assemble" in worship, happened ON THE FIRST DAY! It MUST have happened on the day before it, on the Sabbath, because what is written there in Acts 20:7 is: "On the First Day of the week being still together after that we before had assembled together for the Lord's Supper ("For to eat bread"), Paul dealt on matters of concern with us ...". "Dealt on matters of concern", or, what you say, was Paul's argumenting on matters of concern. Acts 20:7 confirms and affirms - by inevitable and absolute implication, 'Sabbath worship' at that event.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

TC Greek:
"You are making it sound like Jews and Christians co-existed and worshipped as one group and that just isn't so. Paul preached on the Sabbath because the Jews met on the Sabbath. The Gentiles came back the next Sabbath because they knew that's what the Jews did"

GE
At first Jews and Christians did co-exist in the Synagogue. That just is so, and there are incidences recorded in Acts which you should know of but prefer to sweep under the carpet.
Not the Gentiles, but the Christians returned the next Sabbath in this case referred.

Paul preached on Sabbath, because: "Because Jesus having entered into His own rest as God from His own works" (Completed through resurrection from the dead on the Sabbath Day); "Because He had given them rest (Having finished all the works of God on the Seventh Day having risen from the dead "In Sabbath's fulness" ---- THEREFORE remains valid for the PEOPLE OF GOD (the CHRISTIANS) keeping of the Sabbath Day".

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It's a mighty uncomfortable thing to go against just about the whole of Christianity. But if I had to go with the stream, I'll float right into the rivers of molten lead in hell.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

This the second to last of the New Testament Word of God "concerning the Seventh Day (Sabbath)": "For GOD, thus, concerning the Seventh Day spake: AND God the Seventh Day (Sabbath), from A-L-L, H-I-S, W-O-R-K-S, RESTED!" --- "In the Son" --- "In these (Christian) LAST, days!"

And the very last Word of God? --- Read the GOSPELS! For they are the last documents on CHRISTIAN thought on the Sabbath -- not Paul : not a single word, he took it so for granted -- just like the authors of the Gospels.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

One is restricted in Christian conversation with regard to the topic of 'Sunday worship', due to the two simple facts, 1. there is absolutely no reference to something vaguely like it in the NT, and 2. because there are just two incidences in the whole NT to th First Day of the week.

So, one's conversation is over very briskly, so briskly everybody just blink over and never notice, or mind.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The 'issue' of Sunday observance is long since not over with its Acts 20:7 and 1Cor16:1-2 claims. Its proponent have not answered MANY other contrary factors with these two texts yet!

E.g., what about 'the third day' problem for Sunday-worship?

Because it seems to me everybody, once they have no answer to my arguments, place me on their 'Ignore List', and try to evade me or escape my challenge on various threads, and since the following has everything to do with the 'issue', I shall post the following here, while I'm not locked out yet:

Mrs White errs. There were not, three women “about the resting place”. They were not the women “among others” at the crucifixion— Mt27:56! Mrs White – like almost everybody else – is totally blind for verse 27 and the different ‘Marys’!

A. At the Crucifixion—
“There were / present”, “came together”, “stood”— Mk15:40a, Mt27:55a, Lk23:48a, 49c,
“Mary Magdalene and the other Marys”— Mk15:40c, Mt27:56b,
“among”— Mk15:40b, Mt27:56a,
“many (other) women also”— Mt27:55a, Mk15:41b,
“afar off”— Mk15:40a, Mt27:55a, Lk23:49d,
(but the mother of Jesus, “standing by”— Jn19:26)
“looking / beholding”— Mk15:40b, Mt27:55b, Lk23:48b, and
“returned, breast beating”— Lk23:48c.

B. At the Tomb—
“There was sitting over against the sepulchre”— Mt27:61a, c,
“Mary Magdalene and (the other) Mary”— Mk15:47a, Mt27:61b, who
“followed after” (Joseph and Nicodemus)— Lk23:55b,
“and beheld”— Mk15:47b, Lk23:55c
“the sepulchre and how his body was laid”— Lk23:55d
“and they returned and prepared spices”— Lk23:56a-b.

C. ‘A’ occurred before “evening had come”— Mt27:57, Mk15:42;
‘B’ occurred after “evening had come”— Mt27:57, Mk15:42,
but only later, was finished, before,
“afternoon tending towards the approaching Sabbath”— Lk23:54.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, I had a good debate and have learned a lot from the opposing side.

Of all the debated options

1. Trash "scripture" that is the OT
2. Trash just God's Ten Commandments
3. Trash Just God's 4th Commandment regarding His Role as Creator
4. EDIT the 4th commandment to point to week-day-one and call it "Lord's Day"
5. Just accept God's Ten Commandments "as is" no edits and no trashing scripture at all.

I think it is instructiive that we STILL have some things that all agree on.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Edwards:
"The Sabbath commandment given to the Jewish/Israeli was replaced by Jesus:"

GE
PERFECTLY SAID!!!
The Sabbath commandment given to the Jewish/Israeli was replaced by Jesus. Jesus replaced: Quote: "The Sabbath commandment". Jesus IS now that, "Sabbath commandment".
THAT DOES NOT MAKE JESUS THE SABBATH!