Oral Roberts has died

[pinoybaptist]

I have learned to not be critical of preachers who have money. One could say that since Jesus called us ALL to spread the gospel,that if ANYone makes even a meager living off of preaching, he is no better than the rich ones. But I don't see it that way, do you?

First, I don't believe Jesus called us ALL to spread the gospel.
He calls many to ministry, and those he calls are to follow Him and His examples, and he sure never preached a prosperity gospel as the late Mr. Roberts, and others still on this earth.

 

[Johnv]

First, I don't believe Jesus called us ALL to spread the gospel.

The Great Commission would disagree with you, but okay. Perhaps you're confusing the Great Commission with being a preacher like Paul. Anyhoo, different topic.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I find no congruence between Jesus Christ and those who claim to teach, preach, and practice His gospel and teachings yet live a life of luxury, which they did not have before they entered the "ministry".
Just like I would view with suspicion a cop who comes from a poor background socially, has only his cop's salary to fall on, whose wife is just a housewife and/or a working woman, who is not married to old money (as they say).

The Savior said foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man hath nowhere to lay His head.

Whether he's in heaven or not I don't know, but all I can say is.....he's had his praises of men here.

I'll tell my pastor that as he earns in excess of $90,000 annually. He needs to give some of that back prefferable to put it in the collective.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No, I am not saying he was not a Christian. But that's not the point. He gave false teachings. Being moral does not include living the way he did or teaching falsely. We are warned to reject people who teach against the Bible. And saying that God would take him home if he did not get 8 millions dollars is an insult to the gospel and inexcusable.

Also, teachers are told in the Bible that they will be held to a higher standard.

The Hagins are Word Faith teachers, which is a false gospel. Jesus said to avoid false teachers.

And so I have, I didn't go to ORU nor do I go to his churches and attending a COG university was bad enough. However, I honor the moral life. Its rare these days even among the faithful.

 

[Revmitchell]

Its rare these days even among the faithful.

Baloney............

 

[tinytim]

My Bologna has a first name... it's ..

OH.. wait, my ADD kicked in!... sorry folks.

 

[matt wade]

He was wealthy true and he did preach this particularily bad version of the gospel. But how many mistresses did he have? How many people did he kill? Did he live a moral life for the most part? Are you claiming he's not a Christian? I don't judge him eternally but he seemed moral to Me apart from his name it and claim it doctrine.

A "bad version of the gospel"? Sorry, my friend, there is only ONE version of the Gospel. Any other "version" is false and will lead people to hell. His false teachings will lead people to hell and that's far worse than having mistresses, killing people, etc.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I'll tell my pastor that as he earns in excess of $90,000 annually. He needs to give some of that back prefferable to put it in the collective.

Your pastor ?
You dont want to drag him into this, man.
You don't wanna go that route, believe me, and I'll be kind enough not to lead you on.

 

[PeterM]

First, I don't believe Jesus called us ALL to spread the gospel.
He calls many to ministry, and those he calls are to follow Him and His examples, and he sure never preached a prosperity gospel as the late Mr. Roberts, and others still on this earth.

Absolutely every Christ-Follower is mandated to spread the Gospel... every expression of the Great Commission in the Gospels makes that abundantly clear. That said, sharing our faith is but one element of making disciples... which is the true command. Even those that simply "witness" are still only participating in a part of the Great Commission.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

A "bad version of the gospel"? Sorry, my friend, there is only ONE version of the Gospel. Any other "version" is false and will lead people to hell. His false teachings will lead people to hell and that's far worse than having mistresses, killing people, etc.

Did Oral Roberts teach something Other than Christ's Attoning work on the Cross, The Resurrrection from the dead, the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the second coming of the Lord, a final judgement, or a works based salvation?

 

[matt wade]

Did Oral Roberts teach something Other than Christ's Attoning work on the Cross, The Resurrrection from the dead, the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the second coming of the Lord, a final judgement, or a works based salvation?

He taught a prosperity gospel, not the true Gospel. If people come to Christ with a belief in a prosperity gospel, they are not saved.

If you think his presentation of the Gospel was so good, then why did you call it a "bad version"?

 

[Johnv]

But that doesn't answer the question of whether Roberts taught something other than Christ's Attoning work on the Cross, Resurrrection from the dead, the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, etc. I agree that prosperity gospel is not scripturally supported, but that wasn't the question at hand.

 

[matt wade]

But that doesn't answer the question of whether Roberts taught something other than Christ's Attoning work on the Cross, Resurrrection from the dead, the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, etc. I agree that prosperity gospel is not scripturally supported, but that wasn't the question at hand.

The prosperity gospel brings people to Christ because they think they are going to get something out of it such as money. That's not the true Gospel.

 

[Johnv]

The prosperity gospel brings people to Christ because they think they are going to get something out of it such as money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending prosperity gospel here. But prosperity gospel doesn't equate prosperity with salvation. It equates the receiving of material wealth with believing in so-called biblical promises concerning prosperity. It is here where it obviously errs. But on the core doctrines of salvation and atonement, one cannot presume that a prosperity gospel proponent believes differently. And to the topic of Oral Roberts, I can find nothing to suport the notion that he didn't teach salvation by anything other than what scripture lays out. His error wasn't in his teachings on salvation, they were in his teachings on physical blessings.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Did Oral Roberts teach something Other than Christ's Attoning work on the Cross, The Resurrrection from the dead, the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the second coming of the Lord, a final judgement, or a works based salvation?

BTW re-reading this I meant does he teach a works based salvation? Or a faith based one? Just clarifying

 

[Marcia]

And so I have, I didn't go to ORU nor do I go to his churches and attending a COG university was bad enough. However, I honor the moral life. Its rare these days even among the faithful.

I don't call his life a moral life, especially since spread false teachings. That is not moral. OR's influence on the prosperity doctrines of others was seminal.

After he embraced prosperity doctrine, Oral Roberts' best-known and most far-reaching brainchild was the Seed-Faith message. Roberts taught that money and material things donated to his organization were the seeds of prosperity and material blessings from God, and that God promises to multiply in miraculous ways whatever is given--and give many times more back to the donor. It was a simple, quasi-spiritual get-rich-quick scheme that appealed mainly to poor, disadvantaged, and desperate people. It generated untold millions for Roberts' empire and was quickly adopted by a host of similarly-oriented Pentecostal and Charismatic media ministries. The Seed-Faith principle is the main cash-cow that built and has supported vast networks of televangelists who barter for their viewers' money with fervent promises of "miracles"--and the miracles are invariably described in terms of material blessings, mainly money.

. . . For that very reason, Roberts' legacy needs to be evaluated soberly, honestly, and carefully, under the stark light of Scripture. Was the message he proclaimed the unadulterated gospel? Though he eschewed the label, Roberts made his main reputation on television in the 1950s as a faith-healer, and he even claimed to have raised multiple people from the dead. Were those "miracles" real and verifiable? Did his best-known and most staggering "prophecies" prove to be true? Was he himself a credible man?

The answer to all those questions is an unambiguous no. Oral Roberts' influence is not something Bible-believing Christians should celebrate. Virtually every abberant idea the Pentecostal and charismatic movements spawned after 1950 can be traced in one way or another to Oral Roberts' influence. (What the CT blog fails to mention is that Kenneth Hagin and Oral Roberts often ministered together and affirmed one another's ministries. Furthermore, the heir to Hagin's standing as chief of the word-faith preachers is Kenneth Copeland, who went into television ministry after working as chauffeur and pilot to Oral Roberts. So even though it would not be quite accurate to portray Oral Roberts as an aggressive proponent of word-faith doctrines, he acted as more of an ally than an opponent to the movement.

. . . In many places today, including some of the world's most illiterate and poverty-stricken regions, Oral Roberts' Seed-Faith concept is actually better known than the doctrine of justification by faith. The message of prosperity is now the message multitudes think of when they hear the word "gospel." Countless confused people worldwide think of the gospel as a message about earthly, temporal, and material riches rather than the infinitely greater blessings of forgiveness from sin and the eternal blessing of the believer's spiritual union with Christ. <more>

http://www.puritanboard.com/f34/measuring-oral-roberts-influence-macarthur-series-part-iii-56747/

 

[Johnv]

Implying tha Oral Roberts is responsible for pentecostalism is like saying Al Gore invented the internet.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Implying tha Oral Roberts is responsible for pentecostalism is like saying Al Gore invented the internet.

No, Algore is responsible for global warming.

 

[Marcia]

Implying tha Oral Roberts is responsible for pentecostalism is like saying Al Gore invented the internet.

It's not saying he is responsible for pentecostalism. It says he's one of the biggest influencers or main influencer on the aberrant doctrines of Pentecostalism. I even bolded it.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Measuring Oral Roberts' Influence

http://www.gty.org/Blog/B091218