Oral Roberts has died

[dcorbett]

The Great Commission would disagree with you, but okay. Perhaps you're confusing the Great Commission with being a preacher like Paul. Anyhoo, different topic.

My thoughts exactly....GO YE THEREFORE.....means me, you, and everybody that is saved. I am not called to preach, no, but I am called to
bear fruit. The fields are white !!!

 

[pinoybaptist]

My thoughts exactly....GO YE THEREFORE.....means me, you, and everybody that is saved. I am not called to preach, no, but I am called to
bear fruit. The fields are white !!!

I agree that many scriptures are applicable to individual believers but this isn't one of them.
Jesus was speaking to His eleven, and only to them, and while somebody may make the argument that in one book the writer stated that the other disciples were also present nevertheless in that book his direct addressees were still the eleven disciples, and the other two books directly state that only the eleven were there and being spoken to.
Therefore, your so-called Great Commission was not for any believing Tom, Dick, and Harry but for those called into the ministry of teaching, preaching, evangelizing, pastoring, and, finally, no longer extant, apostleship (check out the book of Ephesians).
Each believer is called to have an answer for the hope that is in them, and I guess that is what you are referring to, not the "Great Commission", and if so, then we have no arguments.

 

[Aaron]

Oral Roberts was a liar and a charlatan.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree that many scriptures are applicable to individual believers but this isn't one of them.
Jesus was speaking to His eleven, and only to them, and while somebody may make the argument that in one book the writer stated that the other disciples were also present nevertheless in that book his direct addressees were still the eleven disciples, and the other two books directly state that only the eleven were there and being spoken to.
Therefore, your so-called Great Commission was not for any believing Tom, Dick, and Harry but for those called into the ministry of teaching, preaching, evangelizing, pastoring, and, finally, no longer extant, apostleship (check out the book of Ephesians).
Each believer is called to have an answer for the hope that is in them, and I guess that is what you are referring to, not the "Great Commission", and if so, then we have no arguments.

Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."



To include the great commission

 

[preachinjesus]

15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Philippians 1:15-18 (emphasis mine)

 

[preachinjesus]

http://www.gty.org/Blog/B091218

One of the things that continues to amaze me is how Dr. MacArthur can continue to be petulant towards someone even after their death.

I appreciate Dr. MacArthus's biblicism and passion for souls, but I can't stand that he always makes his points on the backs of others he has pushed down.

 

[SolaSaint]

On the contrary, John MacArthur is a very bold defender of the faith that he cherishes so much. It truly saddens men like him and myself to see what is so precious, then taken and perverted into a get rich scheme (Prosperity gospel).

 

[Jerome]

One televangelist mentioned above admitted to refusing to refer the ill to doctors, and it wasn't Rev. Roberts.

 

[windcatcher]

A righteous life? He had luxury homes and jets. He taught people that if they gave to his ministry, they might get money back from God. He said that God would take him home if his ministry did not get 8 million dollars.

The man was a prosperity preacher and probably did more than any other man, except possibly for Kenneth Hagin, to influence others to preach this false teaching! Just because he has died does not make him a good preacher/Christian. He deceived a lot of God's sheep. I feel sorry for those he deceived.

I agree with sadness for the consequence of this.

And there are plenty others just like him. And yet many still will send thier hard earned $$ to these ministries. How blinded they are - its a shame.

Any of us can be blinded and deceived if we're not mindful and watchful: Inside each of us are desires... wants, wishes, aspirations, a desire to escape.... whatever the weakness we have in common with others is an exposure which, if we're not mindful and on guard, can lead us astray. We of faith should be mindful of the wiles.... we're to be observant ... of scriptures, of prayer, of correct application.... of our own individual areas of weakness and our own vunerabilities and depend on God to help us. The Bible teaches us that in part any blindness in us is present because we choose it and yield ourselves to deception.

I find no congruence between Jesus Christ and those who claim to teach, preach, and practice His gospel and teachings yet live a life of luxury, which they did not have before they entered the "ministry".
Just like I would view with suspicion a cop who comes from a poor background socially, has only his cop's salary to fall on, whose wife is just a housewife and/or a working woman, who is not married to old money (as they say).

The Savior said foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man hath nowhere to lay His head.

Whether he's in heaven or not I don't know, but all I can say is.....he's had his praises of men here.

The servant is not more than his master.

A "bad version of the gospel"? Sorry, my friend, there is only ONE version of the Gospel. Any other "version" is false and will lead people to hell. His false teachings will lead people to hell and that's far worse than having mistresses, killing people, etc.

The gospel works because the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin and God gives us a new heart and fills us with the holy spirit. Lives are changed, not wallets. The blessings of abundant life may overflow to include prosperity but confusing this as the purpose is an outrage: When an errant gospel is preached, the lost remain lost and the ignorant are confused and the guilible and poor are misled. For his family.... yes, my sympathy and condolences..... But much of the grief expressed was more deserved while they lived and others were being misled.

On the contrary, John MacArthur is a very bold defender of the faith that he cherishes so much. It truly saddens men like him and myself to see what is so precious, then taken and perverted into a get rich scheme (Prosperity gospel).

I believe John MacArthur is right on this one! We do need more to stand up and speak the truth. It is not so much that names and fingers must be pointed in every case.... but if the truth is taught, most should get the picture of what is right and wrong when hearing another 'gospel'.


"My people perish for lack of knowledge"........this is my grieving.... and, I perceive, those of several on this board.

 

[Marcia]

15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Philippians 1:15-18 (emphasis mine)

The problem is that no matter his motives, he was mixing in a false gospel of prosperity with the true one. This teaching damaged and continues to damage people; it undermines what Christ did for us; and it is unbiblical.

 

[Johnv]

But it doesn't preclude one from salvation.

 

[Marcia]

But it doesn't preclude one from salvation.

Maybe not, but it is also not sound teaching nor obeying God.

His teachings continue through a lot of other people who are now damaging more. I have met some of these damaged people. Misleading and deceiving God's sheep is pretty serious to God.

 

[Johnv]

... he's one of the biggest influencers or main influencer on the aberrant doctrines of Pentecostalism.

Most mainline Pentecostals would disagree with you.

Maybe not, but it is also not sound teaching nor obeying God.

Not saying otherwise. But on that note, if only 100% sound teaching were required for salvation, then we'd all be hellbound.

 

[Marcia]

Not saying otherwise. But on that note, if only 100% sound teaching were required for salvation, then we'd all be hellbound.

That has nothing to do with pointing out the many errors of OR's teachings. Just because the above might be true does not mean we are to keep silent.

Are you going to go to all the threads where I'm posting so you can disagree with me?

 

[Johnv]

That has nothing to do with pointing out the many errors of OR's teachings. Just because the above might be true does not mean we are to keep silent.

Again, I'm not saying otherwise. Like I said, I'm not defending prosperity gospel here. But prosperity gospel doesn't equate prosperity with salvation., as seems to be the inference.

Are you going to go to all the threads where I'm posting so you can disagree with me?

So if you disagree with someone, you shouldn't keep silent, but if someone else disagrees with you, they are to keep silent? I'll be glad to cite links to the number posts of your that I have no interest in or don't respond, if that will satisfy your paranoia.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I don't call his life a moral life, especially since spread false teachings. That is not moral. OR's influence on the prosperity doctrines of others was seminal.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f34/measuring-oral-roberts-influence-macarthur-series-part-iii-56747/

I don't agree with his theology but is it really an immoral and antithetical to Christian perspective? Salvation is similar with mainstreem christianity. However, He would claim to hold to the promises of God out of context but still scripturally based. And I would venture every church has got something wrong with its theology. When we get to heaven God will sort it out. However, does it lessen his faithfulness to his wife. Good conduct. Subjecting himself (as he beleived it ) to the will of God.

 

[Marcia]

Most mainline Pentecostals would disagree with you.

.

Did you see the word "aberrant?"

 

[Marcia]

Again, I'm not saying otherwise. Like I said, I'm not defending prosperity gospel here. But prosperity gospel doesn't equate prosperity with salvation., as seems to be the inference.

So if you disagree with someone, you shouldn't keep silent, but if someone else disagrees with you, they are to keep silent? I'll be glad to cite links to the number posts of your that I have no interest in or don't respond, if that will satisfy your paranoia.

I've noticed quite a few people getting annoyed with you and they are much harsher toward you than I am.

 

[Marcia]

I don't agree with his theology but is it really an immoral and antithetical to Christian perspective? Salvation is similar with mainstreem christianity. However, He would claim to hold to the promises of God out of context but still scripturally based. And I would venture every church has got something wrong with its theology. When we get to heaven God will sort it out. However, does it lessen his faithfulness to his wife. Good conduct. Subjecting himself (as he beleived it ) to the will of God.

This is not a matter of having perfect theology, but of teaching an error so huge, private jets owned by OR and other such teachers could fly through them!

He was not teaching scripture soundly nor modeling it. He lied as well. I do not believe that God told him he had to raise 8 million dollars or He would take OR home. These errors are not minor, even if they are not as blatant as outright heresies.

 

[Johnv]

Did you see the word "aberrant?"

Again, I think you're painting with a rather broad brush.