"ordained to eternal life" - retrospective anachronistic nuance

[Brightfame52]

Acts 28:23 NASB
When they had set a day for Paul, people came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

Here a group of people had agreed upon a day for Paul to explain his testimony concerning the kingdom God. Therefore, once again, the intended meaning of tasso is this context is by mutual consent.

And note that not only was the direction established by mutual consent among the group, Paul also agreed to provide the testimony at that time and place.

Van,

Your attempt to use Acts 28:23 to turn tassō into a "mutual consent" contract is another massive lexical failure. You are confusing the scheduling of a calendar date with a collaborative negotiation, completely ignoring how the Greek language actually functions.

1. Fixing a Date is an Authoritative Determination

The word used here is ταξάμενοι (taxamenoi), an aorist middle participle. When tassō is used in relation to a day, a time, or a tax rate in the ancient world, it means "to fix, settle, establish, or lock in place." The Jewish leaders formally designated and fixed a specific day on the calendar for Paul to speak. Paul didn't sit down with them to collaboratively negotiate the etymology of the word; a day was set, and people gathered on that set day.

2. Your Philosophy Destroys Basic Vocabulary

Let's apply your bizarre logic to real life, Van. If a university professor fixes (tassō) a deadline for a final paper, and the students all hand their papers in on that day, does that mean the word fixing actually means "democratic mutual agreement"? Absolutely not. The professor authoritatively designated the day, and the students conformed to it. The fact that multiple people interact with a fixed date does not turn an authoritative designation into an egalitarian negotiation.

3. Total and Absolute Lexical Failure

For the third time in a row, your private definition is completely rejected by every standard Greek lexicon on earth. Let’s look at how the actual experts define tassō in this exact verse (Acts 28:23):

• BDAG Lexicon: "To bring about an order of things by specifying—to fix, settle, or assign." They explicitly translate this phrase as: "having fixed a day for him."
• Thayer’s Lexicon: "To appoint, to set apart a day."

Show us a single recognized, standard Greek lexicon that translates tassō in Acts 28:23 as "an arrangement by mutual consent." You can't, because it doesn't exist. You are inventing an entire language out of thin air to protect your Arminian philosophy.

Whether it is a group of leaders actively fixing a calendar day (Acts 28:23), a church actively assigning a mission (Acts 15:2), a centurion actively stationed under command (Luke 7:8), or God passively ordaining His elect to eternal life before the foundation of the world (Acts 13:48), tassō always denotes a fixed, authoritative setting or appointing. God's eternal phase of election does not wait for a human handshake—He sovereignly appoints, His Spirit effectively quickens, and 100% of those appointed infallibly believe.

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[LaGrange]

While I appreciate you bringing Thomas Aquinas and historical Thomistic framework into the discussion, your attempt to turn "ordained" into a gradual, resistible process of preparation completely fails when tested against the text of Acts 13:48 and the explicit history of Paul’s conversion.

1. The Grammar of Acts 13:48 Allows No Trial Period

You are trying to insert a chronological gap between God's appointment and a person's belief, arguing that "hearing can come before full regeneration." But look at the text. Luke does not say "as many as were under a process of preparation, and didn't resist, eventually believed." The pluperfect passive construction (ἦσαν τεταγμένοι) anchors their ordination firmly in eternity past as a completed reality. The moment they historically heard the Gospel, they believed. Their faith was the immediate, explosive fruit of the Vital Phase (Regeneration). The text allows no room for a sacramental or preparatory buffer zone.

Hi Brightflame,

My Comment: 1 Sam 7:3 says “prepare your hearts unto the Lord.” Of course, this is done with prevenient grace. You said in your subtitle: “The Grammar of Acts 13:48 Allows No Trial Period”. This is proof-texting. You can’t define a doctrine by one verse. In other words, you spoke about context. I think you need to widen your context even more. You nailed it when you said “chronological GAP”. I have notes where I use that exact term in them. “Believing” is the term we use for saving Faith. You are saying that too and that’s the term used in Acts 13:48. The difference between us is in the way you use the term “ordained”. Ordained means it’s going to happen. Agreed. It also means there is an order. Not only is our “full regeneration” ordained by God, but also our Calling is ordained by God. Our initial Calling precedes Justification (full regeneration occurs under what we call Justification) as in Rom 8:30.
God’s Grace works in each step of the golden chain. I think what confuses things is having two different kinds of calls. No such thing. Where in scripture does it say there are two different kinds of calls? God calls during regeneration but there is not one with intrinsic grace and one without intrinsic grace. The same call is in all three places (before full regeneration, at the point of full regeneration and after full regeneration) and grace is present in all three places (Calling or Preparation, at the point of full regeneration and after full regeneration). God is always calling us.
Let me answer this directly because this might really help. You said: “But look at the text. Luke does not say "as many as were under a process of preparation, and didn't resist, eventually believed."
Here’s the key that is the difference between us and the Arminians: There is a GAP between preparation and full regeneration. This means that PREPARATION DOES NOT CAUSE FULL REGENERATION! Baptism does. This is where God elects us to Full regeneration. There is no decision that causes full regeneration or bridges preparation and full regeneration.

This might help understanding the term “ordained”:

Calling period (preparation):
Grace (Prevenient) is instantaneous and determined (God ordained this grace)
Our Will is made free by this grace yet hearing may be resisted (God ordained permission - permits resistance)

Full Regeneration (Baptism):
Grace is instantaneous and determined (God ordained this grace - irrestible or efficacious grace - we say there is sanctifying grace too)
Our Will is made free (preparation is perfected by operative grace - God ordained), then our Will consents and cooperates (God’s Grace and man both work together by cooperative grace) to turn (assent) to God and turn away (conversion/penance) from sin. The assenting or act of Faith is believing.

Let me ask you this:

Is Faith an effect of Regeneration?
Or
Is Faith an effect of Hearing Scripture?

Answering these questions would be helpful too:
Does the Lord continue to Call you after the point of Full Regeneration?
If so
Is the Call during the Sanctification Period the same call as the effectual call?
Is grace present in the Call during the Sanctification Period?

2. Acts 9 Proves Paul Was Regenerated BEFORE His Baptism

Your claim that Paul was not regenerated until his water baptism in Acts 9:18 is flatly contradicted by the narrative. Paul exhibited undeniable evidence of a regenerated heart days before Ananias ever touched him with water:

• Acts 9:6: The moment Christ strikes him down, Paul cries, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" 1 Corinthians 12:3 explicitly states that no man can say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Ghost.
• Acts 9:11: God tells Ananias to seek out Saul because "behold, he prayeth." Spiritually dead, unregenerate pharisees do not offer true spiritual prayers to Jesus Christ.
• Acts 9:17: Before a single drop of baptismal water touches Paul, Ananias lays hands on him and calls him "Brother Saul." Ananias recognized him as an already-quickened brother in Christ.

Paul’s baptism was not the cause of his regeneration; it was his initial act of Practical Phase obedience, outwardly manifesting the inward, irreversible change Christ unilaterally wrought on the Damascus road.

My Comment: I’m not denying any evidence. Where justification takes place is where full regeneration takes place. That place is at baptism where sins are washed away (justification = remission of sins Rom 3:23-25). Also, I thought, whether you are Arminian or Calvinist, you had to hear the gospel in order to be justified? Theologians have speculated that this may be what happened during the three days Paul was blind (Acts 9:9; Gal 1:12 - see post #21) but it doesn’t say. Paul heard the Lord’s voice but that doesn’t mean it caused full regeneration. Many have heard His voice and resisted [Matt 19:16-22, John 6:67 (John 6:66 - KJV), etc]

You said: “Paul exhibited undeniable evidence of a regenerated heart days before Ananias ever touched him with water:”

Do you have to see an outward change in someone in order for them to be considered regenerated? Sounds like works. Who decides? In my experience, when a person becomes a christian, one second before he becomes one, he looks and acts the same as he does one second after he becomes one. Regeneration is instantaneous. Regeneration is intrinsic, not extrinsic. Looking for evidence of Paul’s full regeneration sounds like a trial AFTER full regeneration. It’s out of place. Paul’s heart was not regenerated before baptism. Nowhere does Acts 9:6 say Paul was regenerated. It’s interesting that in the next verse (Acts 9:7) is the same Greek word for “arise” as in Acts 9:18 and Acts 22:16 (ἀνίστημι anistēmi G450). It points to baptism. 1 Cor 12:3 does say “no man can say The Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost”, but this occurs during the calling period too (by Prevenient Grace), not just at the point of full regeneration (irresistible grace). The Lord draws us by Prevenient Grace. Clearly Paul’s sins were washed away at baptism (Acts 9:18, Acts 2:38 - clearly seen in Acts 22:16)


Continued

 

[LaGrange]

3. The Failure of Resistible Synergy

By arguing that God's ordination is a "grace determined to all men" that can be resisted based on human volition, you are turning salvation back into a work of the creature. If God's decree to eternal life can be derailed by human resistance, then God's pleasure is completely subject to the will of man. But Scripture says the exact opposite. Romans 9:16 declares: "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."


The Gentiles in Acts 13:48 did not possess an inherent lack of resistance that made them better than the Jews. They believed because they had been sovereignly elected in the Eternal Phase, legally redeemed at the Cross, and effectively quickened by the Spirit in the Vital Phase, making their historical belief an absolute certainty.

My Comment: You said: “…you are turning salvation back into a work of the creature.” Not really. Not when you understand it. Faith is a work when it is in an act - the Act of Faith. This occurs at the point of full regeneration, not before. The timing of the Act of Faith at full regeneration is something we agree on with Calvinism. We don’t only receive Faith at full regeneration but we also use it. Faith is a virtue. This is getting into another big area. By the way, synergism is all over scripture (ex: synergei = helpeth (Rom 8:26) or work together (Rom 8:28) or cooperate G4903).

It really doesn’t matter whether or not they were gentiles. Paul went to the Jews first and, as a whole, they resisted (Stephen said: Acts 7:51 You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Ghost. As your fathers did, so do you also). Many converted but apparently most didn’t. They heard him with their heart but still resisted (“resisted the Holy Ghost”). You can’t resist grace (the Holy Ghost) unless you had it. These verses also show that hearing is conditional and can be resisted:
(Apoc 3:20 Behold, I stand at the gate and knock. If any man shall hear my voice and open to me the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him: and he with me.)
Sounds conditional to me. During the Calling or Preparation period, the Lord gives us the grace to willingly come to Him. When we are willing, He will come to us. (James 4:8 Draw nigh to God: and he will draw nigh to you). Aquinas says there are different kinds of drawings. Maybe this will help: The “heart” signifies the Will. It also can signify the intellect. The “Mind” usually signifies the Intellect. The soul is said to be composed of both the intellect and the Will. So when you speak of the “heart”, it includes understanding (hearing) but mainly, I think, it has to do with the Will - a willingness (voluntary). Christ comes to you (Calls you) at full regeneration but you must also voluntarily turn to Christ at full regeneration. You don’t resist at the point of full regeneration like during the calling period (preparation). I can think of one exception that Augustine and Aquinas both talked about. You’re not coerced either. It must still be voluntary.
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