Silverhair
Well-Known Member
There you go ignoring the word of God again BF.
For someone that claims to teach the word of God you show a startling lack of understanding of His word.
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"ordained to eternal life" - retrospective anachronistic nuance
- Thread starter George Antonios
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- acts 13:48 ordained
There you go ignoring the word of God again BF.
For someone that claims to teach the word of God you show a startling lack of understanding of His word.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
thats u
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You are right I do post scripture and you just ignore it as it points out the error of your theology.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You know how to post scripture, you just dont understand it, after all these years.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF every time you post such foolishness you just prove that you do not understand the word of God.
What you understand is Calvinism which means while you may use the word of God you do not know the word of God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Unlike you BF I have trusted the word of God {over 65 years now} where you are trusting Calvinism a manmade theology.
Hi Ben,
First I want to thank you. You are the one who showed me how to quote and post. Ha ha I will remember you because of that.
My Comment: This is a good point.
Christ instituted the sacrament in Matt 3:16: And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.
So when Jesus was baptized, the heavens were opened to us and the Spirit came down. The Spirit is present at baptism.
Also, Baptism is tied to Christ’s death:
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear opened his side: and immediately there came out blood and water.
Notice the “water”. We say this spiritually ties Christ’s sacrifice on the cross to baptism.
Baptism is tied to the washing away of sins:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.
Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
My Comment: Did the apostles make mistakes on doctrine? They were men. Christ gives the power to men. Here’s an example:
Matt 16:15-17 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Of course, this is the famous quote from Peter and in the next verse Christ makes him the rock. Revelation about Christ was revealed to him. To those in true authority and under certain conditions, cannot err. This is a charism God has given to the church in order to maintain unity and so people know rightly know how to be saved.
My Comment: We say Christ was baptized “to show us the way” which is a paraphrase of Matt 3:15 …For so it becometh us to fulfil all justice”. We say it that way because Christ didn’t need to be baptized. He had no sin. You had to pass through the waters at the Jordan to enter the promised land (Jos 3:14-16). Mystically this means that you have to pass through the waters of baptism to enter eternal life. You say “Jesus was not baptized until He entered His ministry”. Jesus is both priest and victim (John 1:29). His ministry was to die for our sins so this washing signified Jesus as a priest washing to prepare to offer the sacrifice. It also signified Jesus as the victim (Lamb) being washed in preparation for His death (Rom 6:3-4).
My Comment: It is what we call the “instrumental cause”. There is nothing magic about the water. That’s what 1 Pet 3:21 means when it says “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh”. It’s just that, at the point that you do it (that you baptize), God washes away our sins (Acts 22:16). Like you say, think about the alternative: if you are regenerated out of the blue, how do you really know? Protestantism has tried to tie it to hearing preaching (Rom 10:17) to regeneration but it doesn’t work. Since it doesn’t work, people then begin looking for “evidence” of a person’s conversion. Things like that.
First I want to thank you. You are the one who showed me how to quote and post. Ha ha I will remember you because of that.
My Comment: This is a good point.
Christ instituted the sacrament in Matt 3:16: And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.
So when Jesus was baptized, the heavens were opened to us and the Spirit came down. The Spirit is present at baptism.
Also, Baptism is tied to Christ’s death:
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear opened his side: and immediately there came out blood and water.
Notice the “water”. We say this spiritually ties Christ’s sacrifice on the cross to baptism.
Baptism is tied to the washing away of sins:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.
Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
My Comment: Did the apostles make mistakes on doctrine? They were men. Christ gives the power to men. Here’s an example:
Matt 16:15-17 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Of course, this is the famous quote from Peter and in the next verse Christ makes him the rock. Revelation about Christ was revealed to him. To those in true authority and under certain conditions, cannot err. This is a charism God has given to the church in order to maintain unity and so people know rightly know how to be saved.
My Comment: We say Christ was baptized “to show us the way” which is a paraphrase of Matt 3:15 …For so it becometh us to fulfil all justice”. We say it that way because Christ didn’t need to be baptized. He had no sin. You had to pass through the waters at the Jordan to enter the promised land (Jos 3:14-16). Mystically this means that you have to pass through the waters of baptism to enter eternal life. You say “Jesus was not baptized until He entered His ministry”. Jesus is both priest and victim (John 1:29). His ministry was to die for our sins so this washing signified Jesus as a priest washing to prepare to offer the sacrifice. It also signified Jesus as the victim (Lamb) being washed in preparation for His death (Rom 6:3-4).
My Comment: It is what we call the “instrumental cause”. There is nothing magic about the water. That’s what 1 Pet 3:21 means when it says “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh”. It’s just that, at the point that you do it (that you baptize), God washes away our sins (Acts 22:16). Like you say, think about the alternative: if you are regenerated out of the blue, how do you really know? Protestantism has tried to tie it to hearing preaching (Rom 10:17) to regeneration but it doesn’t work. Since it doesn’t work, people then begin looking for “evidence” of a person’s conversion. Things like that.