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"ordained to eternal life" - retrospective anachronistic nuance

Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
If you not denying 2 Cor 4:3-4 then acknowledge that the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and so they believe not, satan has blinded their minds. Until they are saved from the power of satan, they remain unbelievers of the True Gospel.

See in order to believe and convert, we must be saved from the power of satan who blinds the mind Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
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There you go ignoring the word of God again BF.

For someone that claims to teach the word of God you show a startling lack of understanding of His word.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
If you not denying 2 Cor 4:3-4 then acknowledge that the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, and so they believe not, satan has blinded their minds. Until they are saved from the power of satan, they remain unbelievers of the True Gospel.

See in order to believe and convert, we must be saved from the power of satan who blinds the mind Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
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BF every time you post such foolishness you just prove that you do not understand the word of God.

What you understand is Calvinism which means while you may use the word of God you do not know the word of God.
 
L

LaGrange

Active Member
Hi Ben,
First I want to thank you. You are the one who showed me how to quote and post. Ha ha I will remember you because of that.

Ben1445 said:
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Not baptism.
If it were baptism, all sin was atoned for when Jesus was baptized.
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My Comment: This is a good point.

Christ instituted the sacrament in Matt 3:16: And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.
So when Jesus was baptized, the heavens were opened to us and the Spirit came down. The Spirit is present at baptism.

Also, Baptism is tied to Christ’s death:

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear opened his side: and immediately there came out blood and water.

Notice the “water”. We say this spiritually ties Christ’s sacrifice on the cross to baptism.

Baptism is tied to the washing away of sins:

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.
Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ben1445 said:
Do you think that it is not possible that a group of people, make a mistake? I don’t care what the councils of men say. Let God be true and every man a liar.
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My Comment: Did the apostles make mistakes on doctrine? They were men. Christ gives the power to men. Here’s an example:
Matt 16:15-17 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

Of course, this is the famous quote from Peter and in the next verse Christ makes him the rock. Revelation about Christ was revealed to him. To those in true authority and under certain conditions, cannot err. This is a charism God has given to the church in order to maintain unity and so people know rightly know how to be saved.

Ben1445 said:
In the temple, the priest was not washed (baptized) until he entered his ministry. Jesus was not baptized until He entered His ministry. Believers do not enter into the obedience of the ministry of their calling until they are baptized.
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My Comment: We say Christ was baptized “to show us the way” which is a paraphrase of Matt 3:15 …For so it becometh us to fulfil all justice”. We say it that way because Christ didn’t need to be baptized. He had no sin. You had to pass through the waters at the Jordan to enter the promised land (Jos 3:14-16). Mystically this means that you have to pass through the waters of baptism to enter eternal life. You say “Jesus was not baptized until He entered His ministry”. Jesus is both priest and victim (John 1:29). His ministry was to die for our sins so this washing signified Jesus as a priest washing to prepare to offer the sacrifice. It also signified Jesus as the victim (Lamb) being washed in preparation for His death (Rom 6:3-4).

Ben1445 said:
I’m not on board with God is already determined who he’s going to save and who he’s not and has created people that he doesn’t want to save.
But baptism does not wash away sins.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism is a figure, an example. It does not put away the filth of the flesh. The filth of the flesh is sin baptism does not wash away sin. Peter said that.
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My Comment: It is what we call the “instrumental cause”. There is nothing magic about the water. That’s what 1 Pet 3:21 means when it says “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh”. It’s just that, at the point that you do it (that you baptize), God washes away our sins (Acts 22:16). Like you say, think about the alternative: if you are regenerated out of the blue, how do you really know? Protestantism has tried to tie it to hearing preaching (Rom 10:17) to regeneration but it doesn’t work. Since it doesn’t work, people then begin looking for “evidence” of a person’s conversion. Things like that.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
BF every time you post such foolishness you just prove that you do not understand the word of God.

What you understand is Calvinism which means while you may use the word of God you do not know the word of God.
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Now you calling the Truth of scripture foolishness, but Im not surprised 1 Cor 2:14
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Now you calling the Truth of scripture foolishness, but Im not surprised 1 Cor 2:14
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Your comments BF. I have posted scripture that is clear in that it refutes your saved before faith view and you just ignore it as it does not fit your manmade theology.

You have been mislead by the great deceiver.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Mikoo said:
How were you able to believe and have faith to be saved and others were not?
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It is not how was I able to do so. You ask the wrong question.

The question is not HOW but rather WHY.

All have the ability to hear and respond to the gospel just as all have the ability to see the creation of God and know there is a creator.

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Some such as you and I have chosen to trust in the creator some have chosen not to do so.

Act 16:30 ... “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 ..., “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,...”

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
You can post and quote scripture until dooms day, you just cant understand it.
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You say one is saved then given faith but scripture disagrees with your Calvinism

So what have I misunderstood about these verses BF?

Mar_16:16 He who believes ...will be saved;

Act 16:30 ... “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 ... “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,....”

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

1Co 1:21... God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph_2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith

Salvation: It’s Our Choice – Just Not Our Doing

Here good analogy of this truth. "We have to get ourselves to the table, but it is God who has prepared and will serve the feast."

People have to be willing to be saved. God does not force them to be saved.

You have been deceived by your Calvinism. You are trusting man rather than God's word.
 
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