Ordination Questions?

[Dr. Bob]

Ordination questiong of a candidate by a qualified council of veteran ordained men is ESSENTIAL to keep from watering down the ministry with uneducated, incompetent and untrustworthy types who will prey upon unsuspecting churches.

I would ask the candidate

• Life testimony
• Salvation testimony
• Training (formal and informal)/experience
• Basic understand of all major doctrines - maybe 5 questions about each of bibliology, theolory, christology, pneumatology, anthropology, hamartiology, soteriologgy, eschatology, angelology, ecclesiology
• Ministerial qualification - go thru I Tim 3 or Tit 1 and list each of the characteristics
• Denominational qualification - Baptist history, polity
• Contempory church issues - eccumenicism, neo-orthodoxy, etc

This would take maybe 3-4 hours but I would be SURE that recommending a local church odgain a man who is WORTHY

Ordination should MEAN something and be a learning/growing experience for the candidate. Preparing his doctrinal statement alone is worth a year of seminary!!

 

[tinytim]

Ordination questiong of a candidate by a qualified council of veteran ordained men is ESSENTIAL to keep from watering down the ministry with uneducated, incompetent and untrustworthy types who will prey upon unsuspecting churches.

I would ask the candidate

• Life testimony
• Salvation testimony
• Training (formal and informal)/experience
• Basic understand of all major doctrines - maybe 5 questions about each of bibliology, theolory, christology, pneumatology, anthropology, hamartiology, soteriologgy, eschatology, angelology, ecclesiology
• Ministerial qualification - go thru I Tim 3 or Tit 1 and list each of the characteristics
• Denominational qualification - Baptist history, polity
• Contempory church issues - eccumenicism, neo-orthodoxy, etc

This would take maybe 3-4 hours but I would be SURE that recommending a local church odgain a man who is WORTHY

Ordination should MEAN something and be a learning/growing experience for the candidate. Preparing his doctrinal statement alone is worth a year of seminary!!

Those things you listed are the very things I had to write about in my ordination paper... And it took more than 3-4 hours to meet with the council a few times.. before the actuall day of questioning!...

They knew me inside out!

OK... that was a scary thought.:wavey: raying: :laugh: :tonofbricks:

 

[Baptist Believer]

Ordination questiong of a candidate by a qualified council of veteran ordained men is ESSENTIAL ...

Why do you believe it is essential for ordained persons to question the candidate? There have been a number of great Christian leaders and theologians who were not ordained. Although you may have not intended this implication, it sounds like the persons who are ordained somehow have a special wisdom, power or grace that non-ordained Christians lack.

Speaking for my situation, I have never felt the need to have a church ordain me for ministry, yet I believe I am competent to sit on an ordination council and draw out what a candidate believes, for good or ill.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Ordination questiong of a candidate by a qualified council of veteran ordained men is ESSENTIAL to keep from watering down the ministry with uneducated, incompetent and untrustworthy types who will prey upon unsuspecting churches.

I would ask the candidate

• Life testimony
• Salvation testimony
• Training (formal and informal)/experience
• Basic understand of all major doctrines - maybe 5 questions about each of bibliology, theolory, christology, pneumatology, anthropology, hamartiology, soteriologgy, eschatology, angelology, ecclesiology
• Ministerial qualification - go thru I Tim 3 or Tit 1 and list each of the characteristics
• Denominational qualification - Baptist history, polity
• Contempory church issues - eccumenicism, neo-orthodoxy, etc

This would take maybe 3-4 hours but I would be SURE that recommending a local church odgain a man who is WORTHY

Ordination should MEAN something and be a learning/growing experience for the candidate. Preparing his doctrinal statement alone is worth a year of seminary!!

Very good!

In the 3 ordination councils we have put together, we have always talked with the man about areas he needs to study more. We want it to be a step in his ongoing theological education!

 

[Dr. Bob]

The last two councils I've sat on actually recommended NOT ordaining the man (for a set period of time, until some issues uncovered were dealt with). Both men were subsequently ordained and ministering faithfully today!

I did not mean to imply ONLY 'ordained' men should sit on a council, but they are the "veterans" who've been there/done that and should know what questions to ask and how to see if the candidate is qualified for this highest position of ministry.

On my council were 15 ordained men, along with 3 deacons and 3 professors who were not ordained. And the most difficult question of the day came from one of the deacons who "opened a can of worms" because he did not understand the issue himself. I had only been a full-time pastor 3 years when I stood for ordination (and this was 35+ years ago) and did not have all the answers to some of the thorny "practical" issues. I knew the Greek and Hebrew and theology backward and forward, but got stumbled up on a question concerning a divorced woman teaching SS to teens . . Bad memory!!

:tonofbricks:

 

[Baptist Believer]

I did not mean to imply ONLY 'ordained' men should sit on a council, but they are the "veterans" who've been there/done that and should know what questions to ask and how to see if the candidate is qualified for this highest position of ministry.

That makes sense. Sorry to be a stickler. I've just run into that position before in relatively uneducated churches. They assumed that "the power" to just what is true and false came through the process of ordination. They refused to trust their own judgment regarding the word of God and would accept at face value any nut who had been ordained, no matter how crazy their theology.

Back in the 1980s, I followed a pastor who had left the local Baptist church ready to shut their doors after he had made a number of false prophecies and had introduced new doctrine that he claimed to have received by divine revelation when he would drive around his ranch in his pickup truck (apparently that was holy ground). He finally quit and ran off with almost all of the church's finances when he decided that they were sons and daughters of Satan and were doomed for hell because they were questioning his teaching.

They were terribly confused and I spent the next two years preaching and teaching through the book of Galatians (to get the essentials about salvation correct again), the gospel of John, to reintroduce them to Jesus and dispel the Gnostic doctrines he taught them, and then a careful study of Romans to give them a theological roadmap for the future. I'm glad to say that they are still there and even thriving today.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Ordination is a time to examine a man's fitness for ministry doctrinally speaking. Those who say that ordination is not biblical seems to be ignoring the biblical teaching that a man is to be tested prior to ministering. It is true that God calls a man, but that call is testified to by a local church who has had the opportunity to examine a man's life and doctrine and affirm his call. This should never be ignored in favor of some mystical "God called me" answer.

A candidate should write an extensive doctrinal statement covering all areas of biblical doctrine. This statement should be 12-15 pages in length (1 to 1 1/2 pages for each doctrine. Prior to the council, this statement should be distributed to all members of the council for their review, and at the ordination council, questions should be asked to determine or clarify the beliefs and positions of a candidate.

The council should consist of like-minded pastors who are doctrinally sound and knowledgeable, who can ask intelligent questions. More than a rudimentary knowledge of doctrine should be required.

Ultimately the church body calls the council in order to enlist the help of godly men who are knowledgeable in doctrine. The council then makes a recommendation to the body either to ordain or not to ordain. The body may accept or reject the council's recommendation, but it would seem foolish to call a council and ask for their help, and then ignore their advice.

 

[sag38]

Basic understand of all major doctrines - maybe 5 questions about each of bibliology, theolory, christology, pneumatology, anthropology, hamartiology, soteriologgy, eschatology, angelology, ecclesiology

Are you serious about expecting an ordained man to know what these words actually mean? Why not ask him about the doctrine of sin, of the end times, the work of the Holy Spirit, etc instead of using these academic words. I can see it now, people flocking to the Sunday School Class for a doctrinal study on "Pneumatology."

 

[tinytim]

Basic understand of all major doctrines - maybe 5 questions about each of bibliology, theolory, christology, pneumatology, anthropology, hamartiology, soteriologgy, eschatology, angelology, ecclesiology

He left off the Doxology!

 

[preachinjesus]

Are you serious about expecting an ordained man to know what these words actually mean? Why not ask him about the doctrine of sin, of the end times, the work of the Holy Spirit, etc instead of using these academic words.

I would expect a trained and called man of God to know these words and the concepts behind them.

Why is that wrong?

I can see it now, people flocking to the Sunday School Class for a doctrinal study on "Pneumatology."

We would certainly be better for it. Most of the goodly Christians I have met in my time have desired to be fed solid food and enjoy challenging classes, even if they have funky names.

 

[annsni]

Basic understand of all major doctrines - maybe 5 questions about each of bibliology, theolory, christology, pneumatology, anthropology, hamartiology, soteriologgy, eschatology, angelology, ecclesiology

Are you serious about expecting an ordained man to know what these words actually mean? Why not ask him about the doctrine of sin, of the end times, the work of the Holy Spirit, etc instead of using these academic words. I can see it now, people flocking to the Sunday School Class for a doctrinal study on "Pneumatology."

I would certainly expect an ordination candidate to understand what the terms mean. I think ANY mature Christian should understand theology and the terms involved. This is no different than me as a woman who rides horses in dressage understanding the terms "renvers" "travers" "schwung" etc. (all German terms by the way). It's just a bit more advanced knowledge. A pastor should atleast be knowledgeable on the topics of his field which would include terms describing doctrines.

 

[Jim1999]

The last time I took theologial studies was 1965. I doubt if I have used most of those terms, when correctly spelled, more than two or three times.

I want to hear the person's theology in layman's terms. I want to hear how they are going to communicate the word to the people.

Perhaps candidates should grammatically explain a sentence, and work on the multiplication tables!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[tinytim]

I would expect a trained and called man of God to know these words and the concepts behind them.

Why is that wrong?



We would certainly be better for it. Most of the goodly Christians I have met in my time have desired to be fed solid food and enjoy challenging classes, even if they have funky names.

Last yr our Wednesday night Bible Studies centered around Hermenuetics, another big word that my church now knows and understands.

Christianity has advanced education for the last 2000 yrs.. why do we have to dumb down things? Yes, we need to explain the message to them in a way they can understand.. .but introducing new words and meanings to them should be done.

I would not hesitate one bit to have a class called "Pneumatology", but I would also include in the description of the class something that would define it.

 

[sag38]

So much for a practical church. Why not call things what they are and not some big fancy name? I wouldn't call it dumbing down. I'd call it dumbing up. That's the part of my theological education I thought was a waste of time spending it trying to learn the various technical terms and how to spell them.

 

[sag38]

self edit-double post

 

[annsni]

So much for a practical church. Why not call things what they are and not some big fancy name? I wouldn't call it dumbing down. I'd call it dumbing up. That's the part of my theological education I thought was a waste of time spending it trying to learn the various technical terms and how to spell them.

I don't think a pastor needs to use these terms daily but don't you think he should atleast understand the terms of his calling? Wouldn't he look awfully ridiculous if someone walked up to him and asked "Pastor, what is your view of eschatology? " and he said "Huh?" These are theological terms that I think ANY mature believer should atleast understand what it means. I don't think it's too much to ask.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Are you serious about expecting an ordained man to know what these words actually mean? Why not ask him about the doctrine of sin, of the end times, the work of the Holy Spirit, etc instead of using these academic words. I can see it now, people flocking to the Sunday School Class for a doctrinal study on "Pneumatology."

Absolutely. If a man does not know these words and their meaning, he is ill-equipped to be a pastor. These are the words that are the stock and trade of the theological discipline. They are what is used in the books and the writings on the topic. They are biblical words and should be known and used.

BTW, I can't help but notice that you know them. They can't be that hard to know. Anyone, with about five minutes, can learn what these words refer to.

 

[sag38]

The last time I checked none of these technical words were in the Bible.

Honestly, I had to refresh my memory. They are not words that I use in my everyday ministry nor in discussions with other pastors. We talk about the end times not eschatology. We talk about the Holy Spirit not pneumatology.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The last time I checked none of these technical words were in the Bible.

Check again. They are all there. The word pneumatology is from the word pneuma, meaning Spirit or spirit. The word hamartiology is the word hamartios, meaning sin. The words themselves are taken right out of the Bible.

They are the words that are used in the theology books. While I don't necessarily expect church members to know them (though it would be good, and when I teach the doctrines I teach what the word means), a pastor who does not know them is inexcusable.

 

[sag38]

Yes, mighty and high sir. Some are not worthy of your opinion.