Ordination service

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's ok. The Apostle Paul didn't know TD Jakes either. lol!

I love an ordination service.

What is it?.....I mean really who ordinates?

 

[Winman]

So you think Jesus is being tempted to sin today?

No, because he now has a glorified body. But when he was made "flesh" he had a body just like ours with lusts and passions he had to resist.

It was not possible for Jesus to sin as his divine attributes were in Him as a man and one of these is Holiness.

He emptied himself of these attributes. God cannot die, but Jesus really died. God does not get hungry or tired, but Jesus had to eat and sleep.

1 Pet 1:16-16-because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

Yes, but he emptied himself of these divine attributes. He said he did not know the day and hour when he would come again.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

God is always omniscient isn't he? But Jesus said he did not know the day and hour he would return.

You think that because he was tempted he could sin, but this is not what being tempted always means.

Psa 106:13-15-13--They quickly forgot His works; They did not wait for His counsel, 14 But craved intensely in the wilderness, And tempted God in the desert. 15 So He gave them their request, But sent a wasting disease among them.

So in the desert the Israelites tempted God to sin? Is this what you believe?

Yes, but God cannot feel the temptation, he does not suffer being tempted. Jesus could be touched with the "feeling of our infirmities". That means he could actually feel our weaknesses just like us. When he was in the wilderness he was starving, just like we would be starving if we had not eaten for 40 days. That is why the devil tempted him to turn stones to bread, he attacked Jesus at his weakness, which was his human flesh. Jesus was tempted.

Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Temptation didn't bounce off Jesus like bullets bounce off Superman in the movies. Jesus really and truly felt these temptations, he SUFFERED being tempted.

In fact, he felt temptation WORSE than us, because he never gave into them to satisfy these lusts. He suffered far more than we will ever know or realize.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

The way to avoid any embarrassment is for the candidate's views to be known well in advance of the ordination. His pastor would be the ideal person to question him about the areas mentioned in the OP. The pastor needs to know the answers anyway.

An ordination is not the place for surprises.

Agreed. At my deacon ordination, I honestly told them I knew very little about the Cooperative Program. My favorite question "Brother Brian, is the Bible the Word of God, or does it CONTAIN the Word of God?" My answer was "Are you asking whether or not I believe in the verbal, plenary inspiration of Scripture?"

For Pastoral ordinations, at our church, all the real question asking is done previously by council. Then in front of the congregation, some of those questions are asked again, probably to reassure the congregation that the candidate is sound in doctrine. Then somebody preaches the charge. Then there is the laying on of hands, and then the obligatory Bappadist pitch-in dinner.

Consecration. Then Calory Intake.

Could Christ have sinned? IMO: NO! Why? He had no sin nature.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

No, because he now has a glorified body. But when he was made "flesh" he had a body just like ours with lusts and passions he had to resist.

He emptied himself of these attributes. God cannot die, but Jesus really died. God does not get hungry or tired, but Jesus had to eat and sleep.

Yes, but he emptied himself of these divine attributes. He said he did not know the day and hour when he would come again.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

God is always omniscient isn't he? But Jesus said he did not know the day and hour he would return.

Yes, but God cannot feel the temptation, he does not suffer being tempted. Jesus could be touched with the "feeling of our infirmities". That means he could actually feel our weaknesses just like us. When he was in the wilderness he was starving, just like we would be starving if we had not eaten for 40 days. That is why the devil tempted him to turn stones to bread, he attacked Jesus at his weakness, which was his human flesh. Jesus was tempted.

This is completely unbiblical and clear heresy.
This is not the Christian view of Jesus....this is horrible, your worst one yet.

Jesus never ceased or gave up divine attributes.
Christians do not teach this, anywhere.

 

[Iconoclast]

I attended one today and was in the audience. The man being ordained got his MA in Biblical Studies and was very humble, has a heart for youth, and people. Also a man filled with grace. The pastors asked questions and the statement of doctrine was an application of systematic theology. I recognized much of what was presented however I do not understand how someone could not know what Open Theism was nor know if it's a heresy, nor do I find the view that he was not sure if Christ could sin while on the earth accurate as it was IMPOSSIBLE for Christ to sin. Also I did not agree with his loose interpretation of the Hebrew term "yom" and his view that it could mean extended periods of time.

He emphasized a 2 Pt Calvinism but in reality it was semi- pelagainism as no one can claim to hold to Total Depravity yet reject the doctrine of Irrestible Grace or the Effectual Call of the Spirit planing faith and repentance in the elect. No God does not make people evil as Hyper Calvinism teaches but God knows his elect and chose them before the foundation of the world and died for the elect on the Cross.

He also did not know whom TD jakes is and his heresy of modalism on the view of God (God takes on different modes) but is not a triune God. Nor the Emerging Church and Brian Mclarrens lies and deceptions.

The man admitted areas he needs to grow and had no pride which was good. However being a Biblical studies graduate does not make one at expert in theology it just makes one an expert in exegesis and the Original languages which is a field I am not as savvy in.

Besides some few short falls he seemed to have a general grasp in theology and having never done this I have no idea what it would be like.

This person is not close to being ready to lead or shepherd people.
Would a medical school graduate a student as a heart surgeon who could not identify the veins and arteries around the heart????

 

[Winman]

Winman
This is completely unbiblical and clear heresy.
This is not the Christian view of Jesus....this is horrible, your worst one yet.
Jesus never ceased or gave up divine attributes.
Christians do not teach this, anywhere.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Dude, you need to start reading the Bible.

 

[exscentric]

"Jesus never ceased or gave up divine attributes.
Christians do not teach this, anywhere."

Maybe you need to get out from under your rock more Crawling back under mine

 

[Iconoclast]

"Jesus never ceased or gave up divine attributes.
Christians do not teach this, anywhere."

Maybe you need to get out from under your rock more Crawling back under mine

Show where any reputable theologian believes this heretical idea. If you believe it you are in trouble yourself.....study the ......Kenosis

https://bible.org/article/empty-god

http://www.biblestudying.net/charismatic26.html

 

[Winman]

Show where any reputable theologian believes this heretical idea. If you believe it you are in trouble yourself.....study the ......Kenosis

https://bible.org/article/empty-god

http://www.biblestudying.net/charismatic26.html

Again, why don't you quit following men, and believe what the scriptures say?

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

You can read, did Jesus say here he does not know the day and hour he would return?

Yes or No Icon?

Come on, I know you can do this.

 

[preachinjesus]

Yes, I believe Jesus could sin, but WOULD NOT sin as Millard Erickson wrote. The whole point of Jesus becoming a man was to defeat Satan as a man where Adam had failed. God in heaven could easily defeat Satan no problem, what would that do for man?

No, Jesus had to be victorious as a man over Satan to defeat Satan and win back man. He had to be EXACTLY like us, and that is what I believe much scripture teaches. Hebrews 2:14-18 says he took on "the same" flesh as us, that he took on the "nature" of the seed of Abraham, that he was made like his brethren the Jews in "all things", that he "suffered" being tempted. Hebrews 4:15 teaches that he could be "touched" with the "feeling of our infirmites" (weaknesses) and that he was tempted in "all points" as we are, yet without sin.

So, Jesus had to actually fight off temptation just like we do, in fact it was much worse, because he NEVER gave in. Oh, how he must have suffered. But he was victorious, and never obeyed temptation when it would have caused him to disobey God's laws and sin. Thank God for that!

There would be no point in Jesus being tempted if it simply bounced off of him, or if he did not truly feel the pull and tug of the flesh. He would not have been a real man if he did not suffer and feel what we do.

And Jesus directly tells us he could have done differently. He could have called on his Father in the garden and been rescued if he had decided not to obey his Father and die for us. He was under no obligation to die for sinners, and his Father could not demand it from him. It would have been no sin.

But Jesus could have refused, and his Father would have honored his request and save him. Imagine that, God the Father changing his eternal plan.

But that MUST be so, otherwise Jesus's statement would be a lie.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Jesus's question demands a YES answer, so he could have refused to die for us if he wanted. Again, if this is not true, then this verse scripture is a lie. And we know that cannot be true.

There is nothing of Open Theism in this reply. To say so means you simply do not understand Open Theism.

 

[evangelist6589]

Winman



This is completely unbiblical and clear heresy.
This is not the Christian view of Jesus....this is horrible, your worst one yet.

Jesus never ceased or gave up divine attributes.
Christians do not teach this, anywhere.

Iconoclast sometimes you are sarcastic and make people feel stupid. However for this post we are in 100% agreement. I am not sure the name of the heresy WinMan has outlined here, but its got to be in a systematic theology book on the heresy's concerning Christ.

Modalism? Don't think so.
Triethism? No. Don't think WinMan believes in three separate gods.
Arianism? Don't think so as WinMan does not believe Jesus was created.

Which one?

 

[evangelist6589]

This person is not close to being ready to lead or shepherd people.
Would a medical school graduate a student as a heart surgeon who could not identify the veins and arteries around the heart????

In a reformed church I am in agreement and even today I was hesitant to cast my vote. However I gave him grace for two reason.

1) He is a Youth Pastor
2) He is a Biblical Studies Graduate and does not study Theology nor Apologetics like I do or others.

Biblical studies is all about exegesis, hermeneutics, OTI, NTI, the Greek/Hebrew and such. However one does not need to know apologetics nor systematic theology well. Even at the ordination service he was given two commentaries. I would have given him some theology books.

 

[evangelist6589]

Show where any reputable theologian believes this heretical idea. If you believe it you are in trouble yourself.....study the ......Kenosis

https://bible.org/article/empty-god

http://www.biblestudying.net/charismatic26.html

Christian Theology, Millard J. Erickson, pp. 749

According to this view, what Jesus emptied himself of was the form of God. The second Person of the trinity laid aside his distinctly divine attributes and took on human qualities instead. In effect the incarnation consisted of an exchange of part of the divine nature for human characteristics. His moral qualities, such as love and mercy were maintained. While this may seem like an act of the Son alone, it actually involved the father as well. The father, in sending forth his Son, was like a father who sends his son to the mission field. A part of him went forth as well. What we have here is a parallel in the realm of Christology to the solution offered by modalistic monarchianism to the problem of the Trinity. Jesus is not God and man simultaneously, but successively. With respect to certain attributes, he is God, then he is human, then God again... While this view solves some of the difficulty, it does not account for the evidence we cited earlier to the effect that the biblical writers regarded Jesus as both God and human. Moreover, the indications of an apparent continuing incarnation (1 Timothy 3:16) militate against the maintenance of this theory, innovative though it be.

 

[Winman]

Iconoclast sometimes you are sarcastic and make people feel stupid. However for this post we are in 100% agreement. I am not sure the name of the heresy WinMan has outlined here, but its got to be in a systematic theology book on the heresy's concerning Christ.

Modalism? Don't think so.
Triethism? No. Don't think WinMan believes in three separate gods.
Arianism? Don't think so as WinMan does not believe Jesus was created.

Which one?

It's called believing what Jesus himself said. Read it for yourself, and tell me what it says.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Did Jesus say that he did not know the day and hour he would return?

Yes or no John?

Is believing what Jesus said a heresy?

 

[evangelist6589]

It's called believing what Jesus himself said. Read it for yourself, and tell me what it says.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Did Jesus say that he did not know the day and hour he would return?

Yes or no John?

Is believing what Jesus said a heresy?

I know you are Arminian and a semi-pelegainist however I m not totally convinced you are a heretic or spurring heresy. When I gave you the good person test you passed and yourself admitted to be a liar, theif, blasphemer, and a murderer at heart. You also admitted you trusted in Christ for salvation.

 

[Winman]

I know you are Arminian and a semi-pelegainist however I m not totally convinced you are a heretic or spurring heresy. When I gave you the good person test you passed and yourself admitted to be a liar, theif, blasphemer, and a murderer at heart. You also admitted you trusted in Christ for salvation.

You didn't answer my question John, did Jesus say that he did not know the day and hour of his return?

Yes or no John?

I am not asking you what Reformed teachers or anybody else thinks, I am asking you what Mark 13:32 says.

Does it say Jesus did not know the day and hour he would return?

Yes or no?

 

[Iconoclast]

Again, why don't you quit following men, and believe what the scriptures say?

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

You can read, did Jesus say here he does not know the day and hour he would return?

Yes or No Icon?

Come on, I know you can do this.

What you have posted is no different from the J.W. who posts that Jesus said the Father is greater than the Son....then deny He is God

 

[Iconoclast]

Where in scripture is a youth pastor?

 

[Winman]

What you have posted is no different from the J.W. who posts that Jesus said the Father is greater than the Son....then deny He is God

All I have done is ask you what Mark 13:32 says.

What does it say Icon? Why can't you answer?

 

[ShagNappy]

So, why was Jesus tempted if it was impossible for Him to sin? It was an exercise in futility that had no purpose?

Hebrews 4

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[f] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

You say He couldn't sin... so, this scripture means nothing? It is a waste of ink and paper? Perhaps it was not inspired by God then? That would mean God... lied? failed? the Bible is not infallible? I mean, if He could not sin, then the fact He did not sin means less than nothing.