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Yelsew
Guest
I am pleased to see that we have some agreement.
In God's grace, He has bestowed on us many gifts, the chiefest of which is Jesus, His only begotten Son. Therefore we view Jesus as a gracious gift of God or God giving us grace. When in reality God did not give us his grace, but did give us a gift out of his grace.
Jesus' mission in life among man was first and formost to "build a church" among men. When the initial church foundation was laid, and that foundation ROCK is the truth of who and what Jesus is, Jesus then made it possible for all mankind to have an equality before the throne of God. That equality is Faith, something you have or not have. Faith is something that all mankind can have in equal measure, and what each man is capable of having. There is no equality in works nor is there any equality in sin except that all sin is paid for with death.
So in order to eliminate sin as a judgment factor, Jesus died on the cross to atone (pay the penalty) for the sins of the whole world. Now, our works cannot earn us eternal life, and our sins cannot prevent us from having eternal life (Jesus died for our sins). Leaving FAITH ALONE as the single equalizer among men. Faith is something you have or have not! If you have faith as Jesus said in John 3:18, you are not judged, but pass from death unto life. If you do not have faith, you are judged and then cast into the lake of fire, the second death. So, the High and mighty are judged by the same criteria as the meek and lowly.
Now the part that is hard for many Calvinists to swallow, is that "whosoever" believeth is not judged and has everlasting life. "Whosoever" implies that the choice is man's, and is not predetermined by God, though an omniscient God does in truth know from eternity to eternity all that has, is and will happen. Knowing does not mean causing! Therefore, it is not just some nebulous "elect" that are saved, it is "Whosoever believeth on Him" that are saved. Do I deny that there is an elect? No! the scriptures speak of "the elect", but the scriptures do not declare that "the elect" are the only ones who are saved! Neither do the scriptures declare who "the elect" may be. The scriptures do declare themselves to be for any who will receive them, thus opening the door to every human in this temporal life and not just to some.
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God also created man in His image, giving to man the ability to:</font>
God would not have given man Dominion without giving him the authority and ability to act in accordance with dominion. The Calvinist cannot grasp the scope of man, because the calvinist is groping for the dirt from whence man was formed.
With the abilities that God gave to man in the creation which God did not remove from man in the expulsion from the garden, God is leaving the choice to man. In so doing God is asking man. "Do you or do you not want to be saved?" If man says, Yes, then God's word tells us that we must believe, have faith even on the name of his beloved Son, Jesus. If man answers, NO, or does not answer immediately! God, in his grace waits. After all, God has an eternity to wait for man, it is man that is limited by years of natural life, the period when the choice is made. Not choosing salvation is the same as saying NO!
God's grace is a factor in man's coming to faith in Jesus, but the Gifts given in grace are the means of persuasion God uses to convince man to believe and have faith in Him and His Son, Jesus. God's grace provides man with the time necessary to arrive at belief, and thereby be saved.
Now I ask, what is there in believing that is a work? Let me give you a clue...NOTHING!
There is but one divine Grace, the Grace of God. That Grace is not given away in the sense that ownership and control over it is transferred. Grace is an Attribute of the Behavior of Divine God. In creating man in His imaged God instilled in each of us the attribute of Grace. Hense we behave graciously, show favor, toward those we choose to show favor to. God established his Grace as his mode of operation toward man thus setting aside His justice for a different time.
In God's grace, He has bestowed on us many gifts, the chiefest of which is Jesus, His only begotten Son. Therefore we view Jesus as a gracious gift of God or God giving us grace. When in reality God did not give us his grace, but did give us a gift out of his grace.
Jesus' mission in life among man was first and formost to "build a church" among men. When the initial church foundation was laid, and that foundation ROCK is the truth of who and what Jesus is, Jesus then made it possible for all mankind to have an equality before the throne of God. That equality is Faith, something you have or not have. Faith is something that all mankind can have in equal measure, and what each man is capable of having. There is no equality in works nor is there any equality in sin except that all sin is paid for with death.
So in order to eliminate sin as a judgment factor, Jesus died on the cross to atone (pay the penalty) for the sins of the whole world. Now, our works cannot earn us eternal life, and our sins cannot prevent us from having eternal life (Jesus died for our sins). Leaving FAITH ALONE as the single equalizer among men. Faith is something you have or have not! If you have faith as Jesus said in John 3:18, you are not judged, but pass from death unto life. If you do not have faith, you are judged and then cast into the lake of fire, the second death. So, the High and mighty are judged by the same criteria as the meek and lowly.
Now the part that is hard for many Calvinists to swallow, is that "whosoever" believeth is not judged and has everlasting life. "Whosoever" implies that the choice is man's, and is not predetermined by God, though an omniscient God does in truth know from eternity to eternity all that has, is and will happen. Knowing does not mean causing! Therefore, it is not just some nebulous "elect" that are saved, it is "Whosoever believeth on Him" that are saved. Do I deny that there is an elect? No! the scriptures speak of "the elect", but the scriptures do not declare that "the elect" are the only ones who are saved! Neither do the scriptures declare who "the elect" may be. The scriptures do declare themselves to be for any who will receive them, thus opening the door to every human in this temporal life and not just to some.
I will admit that my wording is a bit awkward but are you saying that God's grace has nothing to do with our being born anew? By contradicting me you seem to be saying that it is our action of believeing that causes us to be born anew. I am making a distinction that perhaps you are not getting. I agree that believing in Jesus is what is the cause of being born anew. The distinction I am making is that even that is a grace from God won for us through Jesus atoning sacrifice.</font>[/QUOTE]NO, I am not saying that God's grace has nothing to do with our being born anew. God's grace enables, not causes, our being born anew.
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- God established His Holy Scriptures, HIS WORD</font>
- God gave us Jesus, his only begotten Son</font>
- God established His Son to be the propitiation for our sins (taking our place)</font>
- God established in the New Covenant that OUR (possessive) Faith in His Son is the only Criteria for OUR (again possessive) Salvation.</font>
God also created man in His image, giving to man the ability to:</font>
- Hear God through God's word</font>
- Reason (Persuasion is included)</font>
- Choose among options (the ramifications of choice are included)</font>
- Persist (endurance is included)</font>
- Change his mind (repenting is included)</font>
- Disobey (a choice, rebellion is included)</font>
- The essence of man is spirit (in the image of God, thus "born again" is a spiritual distinction)</font>
- God gave man Dominion over the earth and all that is in it!</font>
God would not have given man Dominion without giving him the authority and ability to act in accordance with dominion. The Calvinist cannot grasp the scope of man, because the calvinist is groping for the dirt from whence man was formed.
With the abilities that God gave to man in the creation which God did not remove from man in the expulsion from the garden, God is leaving the choice to man. In so doing God is asking man. "Do you or do you not want to be saved?" If man says, Yes, then God's word tells us that we must believe, have faith even on the name of his beloved Son, Jesus. If man answers, NO, or does not answer immediately! God, in his grace waits. After all, God has an eternity to wait for man, it is man that is limited by years of natural life, the period when the choice is made. Not choosing salvation is the same as saying NO!
God's grace is a factor in man's coming to faith in Jesus, but the Gifts given in grace are the means of persuasion God uses to convince man to believe and have faith in Him and His Son, Jesus. God's grace provides man with the time necessary to arrive at belief, and thereby be saved.
Now I ask, what is there in believing that is a work? Let me give you a clue...NOTHING!
you did with it to make it fit your side. Those who would say "i'll just do this or that because I'm saved anyway are more then likely those that Jesus will say "I NEVER KNEW YOU", to. I suppose it is possible a backslidden or distrought Christian could say what you said but it would be a rare thing. 