OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test

[utilyan]

The Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that God "chastens His own" and it says He "scourgeth every son He receiveth". If you are "His own" it's a done deal, but God punishes us when we sin or continue in sin. The verses you posted from Hebrews 10 say nothing about eternal damnation, but do warn of "sore punishment" and "fiery indignation" and it is referring to "His people".

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I don't see why you are not a Calvinist.


Part of free will I have the option to reject God, Now your saying is I don't have a choice.

 

[agedman]

I don't see why you are not a Calvinist.


Part of free will I have the option to reject God, Now your saying is I don't have a choice.

1 John 2:

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.​

 

[utilyan]

1 John 2:

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.​

1 John 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

 

[agedman]

1 John 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

2 John:

7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.​

 

[SheepWhisperer]

I don't see why you are not a Calvinist.


Part of free will I have the option to reject God, Now your saying is I don't have a choice.

A child of God DOES have free will, but God chastens us for going our own way. Why? because after a person is saved, he now belongs to God. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

 

[Yeshua1]

Not true at all.



In Romans 11 they are simply warned to stay away from unbelief -- they have not had salvation revoked yet.
In Heb 6 - they fell from grace - from full participation in salvation - they had it... they lost it.

Author of Hebrews contrasted those he mentions in Chapter 6, the mere professors and not saved, with those he expects to be saved and to produce good fruit, so 2 distinct different groups!

 

[Yeshua1]

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"

His own would be the Jewish people of that time.
Bottom line on this issue, Jesus stated that ALL who he saved will get raised up in the end, NONE will be lost again, right or wrong?

Basically, its the word of the Son of God vrs a false prophetess on this issue!

 

[SheepWhisperer]

nevermind

 

[utilyan]

A child of God DOES have free will, but God chastens us for going our own way. Why? because after a person is saved, he now belongs to God. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

I believe that is the truth for everyone. If you were to behave consistent you would be Calvinist.

"saved, he now belongs to God"

That is nonsense you can only REgenerate something that had been generated. you can only RESCUE and SAVE something that is in trouble to begin with.

I'm saying point to someone who you say is not saved, And that same person I say is a child of God who belongs to God.

 

[Rhetorician]

I have numerous threads started by me on this section of the board dealing with the fact that the false doctrine of OSAS does not survive the Bible details.

So here is "yet another"

OSAS does not survive the Bible details
in Matthew 18 where we see "forgiveness revoked"
does not survive the Bible details in Romans 11 where we see 'salvation revoked"
Does not survive the Bible details in John 15 where those 'in Christ" are cut off and burned up.
Does not survive the Bible details in Ezek 18 where we see forgiveness revoked.
Does not surive the Bible details in Ephesians 6 where we see salvation revoked

Does not survive Paul's statement in 1 Cor 9 - "LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

Does not survive Romans 2:13

Does not survive Romans 2:4-9

Does not survive the details of Gal 4 "I fear I have labored over you in vain"

These are not just "so many Bible texts to be ignored" --

Bro. Ryan,

Then is your thesis is correct, can I (we) assume that you are a believer in a General Atonement of Christ? That Christ died to make salvation possible for all? Or that he actually died to save sinners?

Please enlighten me if you will?

rd

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't see why you are not a Calvinist.


Part of free will I have the option to reject God, Now your saying is I don't have a choice.

You have enough free will remaining to always choose to reject God.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe that is the truth for everyone. If you were to behave consistent you would be Calvinist.

"saved, he now belongs to God"

That is nonsense you can only REgenerate something that had been generated. you can only RESCUE and SAVE something that is in trouble to begin with.

I'm saying point to someone who you say is not saved, And that same person I say is a child of God who belongs to God.

ONLY those who have received jesus as Messiah are children of God, correct?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi rd -- nice post.

Sorry I am late seeing it

Bro. Ryan,

Then is your thesis is correct, can I (we) assume that you are a believer in a General Atonement of Christ? That Christ died to make salvation possible for all? Or that he actually died to save sinners?

Please enlighten me if you will?

rd

Atonement by definition -- has to include everything God says that it includes... So then let's go to the "Day of Atonement". Leviticus 16.

In that Chapter the "macro-definition" the LARGE scope of Atonement includes two things

1. The work of Christ as the Lord's Goat - the Sin offering, the Lamb of God, the Atoning sacrifice (all names for the same thing).

2. The work of Christ as High Priest - applying the blood to the sanctuary and altar and people

When it is all done.. that larger concept of "Atonement is done".

Many popular views try and "shrink" that scope down to "just the Atoning Sacrifice" since of course that was in fact fully completed at the cross. But then the conflate that specific narrowed scope with the much larger one as if both are satisfied... and of course they are not, as we see in Hebrews 8 and 9 Christ begins His work as High Priest for us in heaven... AFTER the cross.

So then .. "General Atoning Sacrifice" - yes. A sacrifice on the cross that includes the scope of payment for sins - for all sins for all mankind in all of time.

 

[Darrell C]

I have numerous threads started by me on this section of the board dealing with the fact that the false doctrine of OSAS does not survive the Bible details.

So explain Hebrews 10:14...


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Either we have been made complete in regards to remission of sins or the Writer, hence the Holy Ghost...
...has made a grievous error.


God bless.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Phl 1:6 KJV - "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:"

I see no "free-will" in play here. Thankfully, as His child, I am in His family to stay.

 

[Yeshua1]

Phl 1:6 KJV - "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:"

I see no "free-will" in play here. Thankfully, as His child, I am in His family to stay.

Paul in Romans 8 also agrees with you, as does Jude!

 

[Yeshua1]

Hi rd -- nice post.

Sorry I am late seeing it



Atonement by definition -- has to include everything God says that it includes... So then let's go to the "Day of Atonement". Leviticus 16.

In that Chapter the "macro-definition" the LARGE scope of Atonement includes two things

1. The work of Christ as the Lord's Goat - the Sin offering, the Lamb of God, the Atoning sacrifice (all names for the same thing).

2. The work of Christ as High Priest - applying the blood to the sanctuary and altar and people

When it is all done.. that larger concept of "Atonement is done".

Many popular views try and "shrink" that scope down to "just the Atoning Sacrifice" since of course that was in fact fully completed at the cross. But then the conflate that specific narrowed scope with the much larger one as if both are satisfied... and of course they are not, as we see in Hebrews 8 and 9 Christ begins His work as High Priest for us in heaven... AFTER the cross.

So then .. "General Atoning Sacrifice" - yes. A sacrifice on the cross that includes the scope of payment for sins - for all sins for all mankind in all of time.

Jesus death was for all of MY sins, for all time, correct?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 8 PM Pacific.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus death was for all of MY sins, for all time, correct?

Correct. "for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

 

[BobRyan]

Phl 1:6 KJV - "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:"

I see no "free-will" in play here. Thankfully, as His child, I am in His family to stay.

Read Romans 10 for "free will"
Rom 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

And also John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
2 Cor 5 "We BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God"
Rev 3 "I stand at the door and knock if anyone hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in"