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Featured OSAS Trap

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Cathode, Oct 22, 2024.

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  1. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    I'll just go ahead and say it!

    The Calvinists have completely disfigured the Biblical meaning of "chosen."
    Calvinist theology has had centuries to file off the rough edges, sand down the rough spots and smooth out the overall appearance.

    What I have stated as the "bottom line" is in fact the bottom line.
     
  2. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    Jesus gave the power to sinful men to forgive sin, if you read your scripture.

    Jesus confirms in heaven what they bind or loose on earth.

    This is where ignorance of scripture really holds back people’s understanding.
     
  3. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of Calvinist theologians read Aquinas. Edwards really liked Thomas Kempis's "The Imitation of Christ". Sometimes Owen would complement the Catholic Schoolmen on some doctrinal point. But they also tended to think the Catholic Church represented the Anti-Christ.
     
  4. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    By what measure? Their conflicting interpretations of Scripture?

    By what authority? Who were these men to stand in judgement of anything.

    Aquinas and Kempis both held to the tradition of the fathers as I do, what Edwards and Owens liked in them is the ancient patrimony of the Catholic Church, perhaps with sharper definition.
     
  5. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    What they liked about Kempis was that he tried to imitate Christ. He wrote a book about it. What they liked about Aquinas was his explanation of the predestination of all things which in some ways paralleled Calvinistic theology. They, and so do I, disagree completely on the claimed closeness of the Roman Catholic church to the early church fathers.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Going by your logic then man should be able to heal the sick and raise the dead as that is what the apostles did. You seem to be quite selective in the way you read scripture.
    A man cannot forgive sin, it is only the arrogance of the RC church that thinks they can replace God.

    Jesus gave the apostles abilities that we do not have.

    So I have to agree with you when you said "this is where ignorance of scripture really holds back people’s understanding" You continue to show your lack of understanding. You have chosen to allow some men tell you what the scriptures mean and have followed their false teachings.
     
    #27 Silverhair, Oct 22, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2024
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  8. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    No
    Nope, it's just your Catholic jealousy of our Eternal Security. We have a peace that you can't comprehend.
     
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  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 6 is very clear. If a man could lose his salvation, it is possible for him to get it back because he would have to crucify Jesus all over again.

    Be consistent. If you believe a person can lose salvation, don’t pretend they can get it back. That is unbiblical, as is much Catholic dogma.

    peace to you
     
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  10. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    Catholicism is, and has always been, about human power. There’s virtually no difference between the Catholics and the Pharisees. A bunch of hypocrites that magnify themselves. They fit in perfectly with the modern invention of self-magnifying Reform Judaism.
     
  11. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerfully effective.” James 5

    “Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.”

    What ? Call the elders of the Church for healing and forgiveness of sin.

    Why not go directly to Jesus?

    Biblical model is to do things through the elders.
     
  12. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    Mortal sin puts one outside the Church, they lose life giving grace in their souls.

    To restore life, Confession of sin is necessary.

    This why all the early Christians talk about confession, they quote scriptures with the clear Catholic understanding of confession and Apostolic power to forgive sin.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I did not say we should not pray for one another did I. I said we cannot forgive their sins. Only God can do that.

    Even our faithful prayers do not heal or raise up someone. It is God that does that in response to our prayers.

    I go directly to Jesus as He is the one the forgives and heals. At best man is just an intermediate step and an unnecessary one at that.

    In my men's study group, which includes ministers, we pray for those that are sick or struggling with some sin in their lives. But none of us are under the impression that we can heal them or forgive their sin.
     
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  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    And yet, Hebrews 6 clearly states if someone loses salvation it’s impossible to get it back.

    peace to you
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Please quote the scripture that states “mortal sin puts one outside the church”? The church doesn’t control who is saved.

    My salvation comes from my Lord Jesus, not His assembly (church) of believers, and certainly not any man.

    James is offering good advice, not dogma. Oil was often used as medicine and could be expensive. The Elders would have access to it.

    Praying for others is always good and not confined to “Elders”. The idea of sin being forgiven, in this context, is that the sickness was the result of sin.

    The Elders would have exercised church discipline in bringing the “sin” to the believers’ attention and encouraging them to repent, the person confesses their sin to God and they are forgiven by God, not the elders, not a priest.

    I appreciate your defense of your beliefs. The BB rules don’t allow proselytizing by none baptists. Just a reminder.

    peace to you
     
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  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yea…2000 years of heretical false teaching. Congratulations!:Rolleyes
     
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I hold to the "P" in Tulip.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The question, @Cathode , is whether Scrioture is true or false.

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    Now, I realize Catholics believe the verse false.

    But changing the verse to read "that whosoever believeth in him might not perish and has the potential to gain everlasting life" is to call God a liar.

    Either those who believe have everlasting life or they don't. Either one is saved from the wrath to come or they are not.

    The problem is not OSAS but misunderstandings of the doctrine. Salvation is experienced in the present (if one is truely saved....i.e., saved from the wrath to come, saved from sin and death) but it is also pointing to a future event (Judgment).
     
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  19. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    The Church in James called on the Elders for prayers anointing for healing and the forgiveness of sin.
    So it is through the instrumentality of the Elders prayers and anointing that people are healed and forgiven.
    It doesn’t say ‘call on Jesus directly ‘.

    Catholics have the biblical model.

    “for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ “ 2 Corinthians 2:10

    Paul forgave sin in the person of Christ, ‘Persona Christi’ we Catholics call it, where a priest forgives sin in the person of Christ.

    When you act in someone’s Person, like a King or Sovereign, you are acting with their power and authority.

    Which is the binding and loosing authority granted by Christ, Jesus confirms and ratifies in heaven what His Apostolic agents on earth bind or loose.

    As Ambrose put it in amazement, all judgement was granted to the Son by The Father, but Jesus gives this power to the Apostles by The Holy Spirit.

    So through the instrumentality of the Elders people are healed and forgiven.

    The Catholic and very biblical model.
     
  20. Stray Cat

    Stray Cat New Member

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    Did not God know we would sin when he saved us?

    If we could lose our salvation, what did it take to get it?

    Many religions believe The Lord Jesus just is not enough. i.e. JWs, Mormons, RCs. etc.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 Faith is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
     
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