OSAS Trap

[xlsdraw]

A major part of the reason Christianity is divided is due to speculative private interpretations of scripture.
If you were going to, couldn’t you suppose the False Prophet to be from where Christianity has long condemned a so named false prophet already, in Islam.
Has not Islam a future all uniting messianic figure prophecied in its system?
Could you suppose the recent attempts at establishing a radical Islamic state a preamble to something wider.

Your "Franciscan" Pope loves Islam.

 

[MrW]

A major part of the reason Christianity is divided is due to speculative private interpretations of scripture.
If you were going to, couldn’t you suppose the False Prophet to be from where Christianity has long condemned a so named false prophet already, in Islam.
Has not Islam a future all uniting messianic figure prophecied in its system?
Could you suppose the recent attempts at establishing a radical Islamic state a preamble to something wider.

Islam has no religious history extending back to Babylon, like the RCC does. I could see an Islamic figure being the anti-Christ, a political figure, but not the False Prophet, a religious figure.

You did not answer my question about how you understand the Mystery Babylon passages.

 

[kyredneck]

I liked your analogy.

Water baptism doesn’t save anyone.

As a profession of faith, water baptism saved (delivered, rescued) many Jews from the wrath (great tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble) that fell upon that generation that murdered Christ, and culminated with the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the Sinai Covenant.

 

[kyredneck]

So if not save from hell what are they saved from?

As a profession of faith, water baptism saved (delivered, rescued) many Jews from the wrath (great tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble) that fell upon that generation that murdered Christ, and culminated with the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the Sinai Covenant.

 

[Silverhair]

As a profession of faith, water baptism saved (delivered, rescued) many Jews from the wrath (great tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble) that fell upon that generation that murdered Christ, and culminated with the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the Sinai Covenant.

Jews were baptized for the remission of sin after they turned back to God. The fact they were baptized was a proof that they had turned back to God, it was their faith in Him the saved them.

 

[kyredneck]

Jews were baptized for the remission of sin after they turned back to God. The fact they were baptized was a proof that they had turned back to God, it was their faith in Him the saved them.

K, but the saving, the deliverance, the rescue, was from the wrath that was to come upon THAT GENERATION.

38 And Peter [said] unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

 

[MrW]

K, but the saving, the deliverance, the rescue, was from the wrath that was to come upon THAT GENERATION.

38 And Peter [said] unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

Something to consider: Acts 2 was a Jewish preacher speaking to Jewish people about a Jewish Messiah whom they had rejected. I never saw it repeated.

 

[Silverhair]

K, but the saving, the deliverance, the rescue, was from the wrath that was to come upon THAT GENERATION.

38 And Peter [said] unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

KY as it says "repent" have a change of mind as to who this Jesus is. In other words trust in Him as Lord and savior and being Jews they would understand baptism for remission of sins as God forgiving them their sin which in this context was that they had crucified their long awaited Messiah.

They were saved not from the wrath but for eternity. The Holy Spirit would indwell those that trusted in Christ just as we are.

 

[kyredneck]

KY as it says "repent"

SILV, I'm trying to get you to focus on the word 'save'.

"Save yourselves from this crooked generation."

Original Word: σώζω
Transliteration: sṓzō
Phonetic Spelling: sode'-zo
[σώζω] from a primary σῶς (contraction for obsolete σάος, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively)

It's intent is not always in the eternal sense.

 

[Silverhair]

SILV, I'm trying to get you to focus on the word 'save'.

"Save yourselves from this crooked generation."

Original Word: σώζω
Transliteration: sṓzō
Phonetic Spelling: sode'-zo
[σώζω] from a primary σῶς (contraction for obsolete σάος, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively)

It's intent is not always in the eternal sense.

I agree that it does not always mean in the eternal sense. It could be understood in the temporal or the eternal sense.

But the question is how are they to be saved from that crooked generation? They could try through self effort or they could trust in Christ Jesus. Peters' sermon was about trusting in Christ Jesus for their salvation.

They had heard the gospel message now they had to choose to either remain in that perverse generation or to come out of that perverse generation by trusting in Christ Jesus. The choice was theirs'.

 

[Mikoo]

“For if no one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These verily are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed Head.” John Chrysostom, On the Priesthood, 3:5-6 (A.D. 387).

Is this man-made quote equal to God's Word?

 

[MrW]

Is this man-made quote equal to God's Word?

No.

Now will you answer my question, asking now for the third time, if you don’t believe Mystery Babylon is the RCC and the end times False Prophet is the pope, how do you understand the meaning of those passages?

Or will you just pretend I didn’t ask? It’s ok if you don’t have an answer, no problem, but please don’t complain if someone says it’s the RCC and the pope, when you have no idea what it refers to. Maybe the fact you have nothing to equate it to is an indication it’s already been correctly stated. You have to admit the pope is coming up with stuff that no longer aligns with the catechism.

 

[Cathode]

Is this man-made quote equal to God's Word?

John Chrysostom was the Bishop of Constantinople. Notice he is understanding the scripture the way Catholics do today.

This isn’t his private interpretation either, this is what his Apostolic predecessors were taught from the Apostles.

“They teach what they themselves have learnt from their predecessors. They have received those rites which they explain from the Church’s tradition. They preach only ‘the dogmas of the Church'” John Chrysostom, Baptismal Instruction (A.D. 389).

 

[Mikoo]

No.

Now will you answer my question, asking now for the third time, if you don’t believe Mystery Babylon is the RCC and the end times False Prophet is the pope, how do you understand the meaning of those passages?

Or will you just pretend I didn’t ask? It’s ok if you don’t have an answer, no problem, but please don’t complain if someone says it’s the RCC and the pope, when you have no idea what it refers to. Maybe the fact you have nothing to equate it to is an indication it’s already been correctly stated. You have to admit the pope is coming up with stuff that no longer aligns with the catechism.

I think your little rant was meant for someone else. I think you missed something along the thread here.

 

[Mikoo]

John Chrysostom was the Bishop of Constantinople. Notice he is understanding the scripture the way Catholics do today.

This isn’t his private interpretation either, this is what his Apostolic predecessors were taught from the Apostles.

“They teach what they themselves have learnt from their predecessors. They have received those rites which they explain from the Church’s tradition. They preach only ‘the dogmas of the Church'” John Chrysostom, Baptismal Instruction (A.D. 389).

Got it. So it is NOT the Word of God. Just men following other men that were NOT chosen by Christ Himself. Thanks.

 

[Cathode]

Got it. So it is NOT the Word of God. Just men following other men that were NOT chosen by Christ Himself. Thanks.

There is a lineage of Apostolic appointees with Apostolic Authority that teach Apostolic understanding of Scripture, they only teach what they were taught from the Apostles.

Protestantism is not of the Apostolic lineage that teaches the ancient objective understanding of Scripture.
They teach human founded interpretations of Scripture according to each founders human interpretations.
That’s why they disagree on the very same scripture.

 

[Mikoo]

There is a lineage of Apostolic appointees with Apostolic Authority that teach Apostolic understanding of Scripture, they only teach what they were taught from the Apostles.

Protestantism is not of the Apostolic lineage that teaches the ancient objective understanding of Scripture.
They teach human founded interpretations of Scripture according to each founders human interpretations.
That’s why they disagree on the very same scripture.

LOL. Thanks for your rc member opinion. I expect nothing less from a person who serves the pope.
But, thanks for reaffirming what I wrote.
So it is NOT the Word of God. Just men following other men that were NOT chosen by Christ Himself. Thanks.

 

[kyredneck]

No.

Now will you answer my question, asking now for the third time, if you don’t believe Mystery Babylon is the RCC and the end times False Prophet is the pope, how do you understand the meaning of those passages?

Or will you just pretend I didn’t ask? It’s ok if you don’t have an answer, no problem, but please don’t complain if someone says it’s the RCC and the pope, when you have no idea what it refers to. Maybe the fact you have nothing to equate it to is an indication it’s already been correctly stated. You have to admit the pope is coming up with stuff that no longer aligns with the catechism.

“Only fools and madmen are positive in their interpretations of the apocalypse.” C.H. Spurgeon

You're waaay off, W. Babylon is apostate Judaism, the unfaithful, adulterous, murderous, wife of Jehovah who is now a widow because she killed her Husband.

 

[Cathode]

“Only fools and madmen are positive in their interpretations of the apocalypse.” C.H. Spurgeon

That goes for all scripture. That is why I can’t follow my own interpretations of Scripture or any other human interpretations of scripture.

If someone could kindly and genuinely acknowledge this point, I can move on to what I really Love talking about, the inner spiritual life. There are amazing things that have happened and things that Jesus has done, wonders that would strengthen the brethren.

Catholic says. Scriptures interpretation is handed down in a singular interpretation Father to Son by Tradition of the Church. That there is only one understanding of Scripture handed down in Truth.

Protestantism says: Scripture is self interpreting, which does not make sense to Catholics, because of the chaos and divisions we see from it.

That’s it.

Someone say they genuinely see the point I’m making, even if they disagree with it. Repeat it back like a drive through order.

Whopper with cheese, heavy onion.

 

[Mikoo]

That goes for all scripture. That is why I can’t follow my own interpretations of Scripture or any other human interpretations of scripture.

...

You absolutely follow your own interpretations of Scripture. You came to the conclusion that the rc denomination is correct on their interpretation of God's Word.