Matthew 20:22,23 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
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Our Post-Resurrection Bodies (1 Cor. 15)
- Thread starter pinoybaptist
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Matthew 20:22,23 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Was he, bodily, immersed in Spirit life when he was raised from the dead?
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor. 15:45,46
Then declared to be the beloved Son of God? Romans 1:4
Why in the world, Percho, did you not go to Mark 10:38-39??
Why in the world, Percho, did not indicate whether the baptism in view was a water baptism, a spiritual baptism, or a figurative reference to Christ's death.
Perhaps you missed where I said your bolded phrase was not in my Bible? Now bibles based on the Byzantine textform do have the phrase, i.e. KJV, NKJV, WEB, but bibles based on the critical text do not, such as the NASB, HCSB and NET. Neither do the dreaded NIV and ESV
Why in the world, Percho, did not indicate whether the baptism in view was a water baptism, a spiritual baptism, or a figurative reference to Christ's death.
Perhaps you missed where I said your bolded phrase was not in my Bible? Now bibles based on the Byzantine textform do have the phrase, i.e. KJV, NKJV, WEB, but bibles based on the critical text do not, such as the NASB, HCSB and NET. Neither do the dreaded NIV and ESV
I heard a preacher say about our resurrection bodies, that it will be raised a spiritual body (albeit with flesh and bones, no blood as there will be no need for blood in heaven), as compared to our natural bodies, natural meaning no need for air or oxygen (since there is no blood that needs to be the carrier of oxygen).
Now, this made me think a little bit, including up to a little deeper about the meaning of, and its implication to, regeneration.
What do you all Baptists think ?
This should make for an interesting thing to discuss.......civillythumbsup
Talk about what other "interesting" preaching on the subject you've heard, and of what you say.
If you're a seminary graduate, forget about the usual "mainstream" teachings you've learned for a while (not bashing seminary education, now..), and give us your own "bizarre" (meant as a joke) thoughts.
Our resurrected bodies shall be exactly the same as Jesus, as his was the same physical body died in was raised up, and spiritual refers not to us being raised in a state after death, but to a physical resuurection yet to have happened!
I would like to know what both you think of this thought.
Can I look at Romans 8:17 in the same context as Mark 10:38,39
Jesus asked: Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? Use Mark
They said yes we can and then Jesus stated:
Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: Use Mark
First I will need to ask is baptism, inclusive of life from the dead, with Spirit glorified life filled bodies, and declared son ship?
Then he *permitted Him. After (and) being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” Matt 3:15,16,17 NASB
Romans 1:4 KJV And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Does not Romans 8:17 confirm the same statement of Jesus in Mark?
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. KJV
That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
I moved a comer before that in bold.
I'm good with Mark.
Can I look at Romans 8:17 in the same context as Mark 10:38,39
Jesus asked: Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? Use Mark
They said yes we can and then Jesus stated:
Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: Use Mark
First I will need to ask is baptism, inclusive of life from the dead, with Spirit glorified life filled bodies, and declared son ship?
Then he *permitted Him. After (and) being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” Matt 3:15,16,17 NASB
Romans 1:4 KJV And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Does not Romans 8:17 confirm the same statement of Jesus in Mark?
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. KJV
That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
I moved a comer before that in bold.
I'm good with Mark.
Here Percho is what I am GUESSING you mean:
Jesus asked: Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with, i.e. Jesus death on the cross?
Jesus said Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: James was the first to die for Christ.
First I will need to ask is spiritual baptism, inclusive of life from the spiritually dead, with Spirit glorified life filled bodies, and declared son ship? The answer is no!! Our spirit, our human spirit/soul is made alive when we are spiritually united with Christ. We are still clothed in this mortal body of flesh. Now at Christ's second coming, those who have died "in Christ" will be raised, and those "in Christ" alive at the time will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and we will all meet Jesus in the air, in our glorified physical bodies.
I could not even guess as to what your point or question was concerning Christ's water baptism, and His anointing with power and the Holy Spirit.
Romans 1:4 does say Christ's resurrection declared He is the Son of God with power.
Romans 8:17 says We become heirs of God when we are born anew as spiritual children of God, and spiritual siblings of Christ.
Jesus had been physically regenerated, and believers spiritually placed in Christ are spiritually regenerated, i.e. made alive, and thus we have followed Christ in the regeneration spiritually, but look forward to our physical regeneration at Christ's second coming.
Jesus asked: Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with, i.e. Jesus death on the cross?
Jesus said Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: James was the first to die for Christ.
First I will need to ask is spiritual baptism, inclusive of life from the spiritually dead, with Spirit glorified life filled bodies, and declared son ship? The answer is no!! Our spirit, our human spirit/soul is made alive when we are spiritually united with Christ. We are still clothed in this mortal body of flesh. Now at Christ's second coming, those who have died "in Christ" will be raised, and those "in Christ" alive at the time will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and we will all meet Jesus in the air, in our glorified physical bodies.
I could not even guess as to what your point or question was concerning Christ's water baptism, and His anointing with power and the Holy Spirit.
Romans 1:4 does say Christ's resurrection declared He is the Son of God with power.
Romans 8:17 says We become heirs of God when we are born anew as spiritual children of God, and spiritual siblings of Christ.
Jesus had been physically regenerated, and believers spiritually placed in Christ are spiritually regenerated, i.e. made alive, and thus we have followed Christ in the regeneration spiritually, but look forward to our physical regeneration at Christ's second coming.
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Yes, there is a body. But not just "a" body, it will be the same body we have now. The difference is that this current body is feeling the effects of sin - weakness, dishonor, mortality - natural.
In the regeneration, this same body will stand up - cleansed from sin, in power, honor and immortality - spiritual. In short, Indestructible
We will be saved, physically, by His life. Read about it in Romans 5 & 1Cor 15
But, as it pertains to the seeming veer off course in the discussion, there is quite a bit which will happen at the same time.
Christ will return in the clouds
We will be raised indestructible
We will meet Him in the air, and descend with Him - apantesin
Some believers will be adopted as sons - if we suffer with Him (Rom 8:17, 2Tim 2:12)
Those who forsook all will inherit eternal life (Matt 19:28-29)
Salvation is now nearer than when we believed
I was asking if the baptism of Mark 10 that Jesus applied to himself, was inclusive of himself, bodily, being quickened from the realm of the dead?
In other words this verse speaks of Jesus: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Was the baptism Jesus was speaking of in Mark 10 inclusive of Jesus being made alive by the Spirit and declaration of son ship.
As far as we are concerned, do we who have been given the Spirit of Adoption as sons of God still await a part of our baptism as was Christ baptized, that is Adoption, the redemption of the body.
Is the redemption of the body ie spiritual body as in 1 Cor 15:46 a part of the baptism Jesus was baptized with?
Two questions.....(1) will my hair grow back and (2) is there beer in heaven...then the stretch....Guinness??? :love2:
I did catch the redundancy, as if there would be a third body. But I was intentionally overlooking it for the sake of what I presumed was his intent
So you are saying our bodies will be reconstituted? Where will it reside and seriously, why do we need a body.....oh I understand, its for the Guinness! So in otherwords we still excrete waste! Or does flesh have no need of nourishment in heaven??? This is too confusing to me.
Jesus ate food on several occasions after He was raised. Was it out of necessity? We aren't told that. But we are told that in heaven is the tree of life yielding fruit each month.
I would imagine that waste is a byproduct of sin, and that a person who is completely sinless person wouldn't have any waste. It's not something I dwell on because it's a matter of speculation if it's not addressed in scripture. I'd rather not lean in my own understanding
Hi Percho,
1) In my opinion, the baptism that Jesus was referring to in Mark 10:38-39 is a figurative reference to His suffering and death, His sacrifice as the Lamb of God.
2) Three days after He laid down His life, He arose from the dead. This was His physical resurrection, from physical death. He was never separated from God due to His sin, for He was sinless. But on the cross, He asked why God had forsaken Him, apparently indicating some sort of spiritual separation. However, as He physically died, He commended His Spirit to God.
3) We on the other hand are conceived in a separated from God state, for the many were made sinners by the disobedience of Adam. Thus, from the get-go we are spiritually dead, meaning separated spiritually from God. But when God puts us spiritually in Christ, we are made alive, quickened, regenerated, spiritually. We become spiritual children of God with a right to be physically redeemed on the last day.
4) Yes, our water baptism symbolizes our spiritual baptism, where we were placed in Christ and indwelt with the Holy Spirit. When you went under the water, that symbolized you being buried in Christ spiritually, and while under the water that symbolizes the washing of regeneration where your sin burden is removed (the circumcision of Christ) and when you arise out of the water, that symbolizes arising in Christ a new creation created for good works. If you are born anew, all this has happened spiritually.
5) Since we are indwelt, sealed in Christ, and given as a pledge, that we will be raised in glorified bodies, our indwelt Holy Spirit is our Spirit of Adoption promising our bodily resurrection when Christ returns.
6) In summary, water baptism symbolized our spiritual baptism, not our physical death or bodily resurrection. Note that when Christ returns, those alive in Christ do not physically die, but are changed in the twinkling of an eye, therefore our spiritual baptism does not include physical death.
Van
Let me ask.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Rev 1:5
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17
Was it necessary, that for the shed blood, of Jesus to wash away our sins that Jesus had to be, made alive from the dead, and or be resurrected and or be regenerated?
Definition of REGENERATE from Merriam-Webster
1
: formed or created again
2
: spiritually reborn or converted
3
: restored to a better, higher, or more worthy state
Are birth terms used relative to the resurrection of Jesus Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the (Lit. birth) pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Had Jesus not been regenerated, would his blood have washed away our sins?
What did the spirit of Jesus that he commended into the hands of his Father, do for the once living soul, Jesus, when it remained with Jesus?
It gave life to the soul of the flesh that was in the blood of him. Jesus was dead, separated from his Father, until he was quickened by the Spirit 1 Peter 3:18
He had obediently drank of the cup of suffering unto death then, "Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee," was a part of his baptism.
Jesus became the washing of regeneration by the grace of God.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
We would not have needed his shed blood for our sins to be washed away and he would not have needed to be raised from the dead to remove our sins.
Answer: NO! The resurrection of Jesus fulfills prophesy and proves God accepted His sacrifice as a sin offering. We were bought with His blood when He died on the cross.
Why Percho do you just keep asking questions and never acknowledge the answers?
There is absolutely no "birth language" in Acts 2:24. The word for pain is described as like birth pains. So the idea is not birth but the associated pain. His death and suffering was necessary to give birth to the New Covenant in His blood.
If you are disagreeing with me about the meaning of baptism, still trying to include the resurrection, say so.
I am disagreeing with you. Everything that took place at the water baptism was a picture of what he had to look forward to predicated upon his obedience unto death.
Phil 2:8 states, he became obedient unto death even the death of the cross.
Hebrews 5:8 states, though he were a Son, Yes the Son of the living God, yet learned he obedience through the things which he suffered.
Phil 2:9 Wherefore ( because he learned through sufferings and became obedinet unto death) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: What was that name he was given by God his Father and when did he obtain it by inheritance?
Hebrews 1:4,5 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
Faith is actually what God the Father believed concerning his Son.
The Father God had faith the the Son would be obedient in the shedding of his blood, where his life came from BTW, therefore before placed, set forth the Son a place of mercy, a propitiation.
Jesus being raised from the dead became the faith of God.
From Robertson's Word Pictures
he pangs of death (τας ωδινας του τανατου — tas ōdinas tou thanatou). Codex Bezae has “Hades” instead of death. The lxx has ωδινας τανατου — ōdinas thanatou in Psalm 18:4, but the Hebrew original means “snares” or “traps” or “cords” of death where sheol and death are personified as hunters laying snares for prey. How Peter or Luke came to use the old Greek word ωδινας — ōdinas (birth pangs) we do not know. Early Christian writers interpreted the Resurrection of Christ as a birth out of death. “Loosing” (λυσας — lusas) suits better the notion of “snares” held a prisoner by death, but birth pangs do bring deliverance to the mother also.
I wonder why they did that, I put in bold?
there is a reason some translations of Isa 26:19 use the earth shall birth her dead.
Isa 66:7,8 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day?
Does that appear to say a man child will be brought forth from the earth without birth pangs? Could that be Jesus the Christ, Thou art my Son this day have I begotten (born) thee, the beginning, the firstborn from the dead? Acts 13:33 Col 1:18
:applause:Bingo!