Our role in evangelism

[JonC]

I want to look at this quote (I am referencing this from another thread. These are not Iconoclast's words but part of a larger work he offered for discussion)

. . . instead of being content to stand in the counsel of God, and point sinners to Christ . . .. They, under pretense of extra-liberality, go a step, one awful step further, than the Counsel of God, by offering Christ to all their hearers; and very often, that none may mistake their presumptuous generosity, will then intently urge upon their hearers, one in all, to accept, and not to miss, but at that very moment to accept their offer of Christ.

The premise, as I understand, is that we are to point to Christ without urging people to believe as we do not know who God has chosen to save.

I disagree, but think it is a worthy topic of discussion.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I want to look at this quote (I am referencing this from another thread. These are not Iconoclast's words but part of a larger work he offered for discussion)



The premise, as I understand, is that we are to point to Christ without urging people to believe as we do not know who God has chosen to save.

I disagree, but think it is a worthy topic of discussion.

If that is the premise, it is a faulty and entirely unbiblical premise.

God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17). Christ ordained that repentance and remission of sins would be preached in His name to all nations (Luke 24). Paul wanted everybody who heard him testify the truth to Agrippa to be saved (Acts 26). An angel will preach the gospel to the whole world (Rev. 14).

 

[JonC]

I think the thrust of the quote is announcing the gospel (Behold! The Lamb) versus offering Christ to people (telling people they can be saved).

But I agree with you. I do not believe there was a man born for whom Christ did not die so that they may be saved.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think the thrust of the quote is announcing the gospel (Behold! The Lamb) versus offering Christ to people (telling people they can be saved).

But I agree with you. I do not believe there was a man born for whom Christ did not die so that they may be saved.

The passages that I spoke about (Luke 24; Acts 17, 26; Rev. 14) show that Christ is to be offered to all people.

 

[Lodic]

It's not enough to simply point people to Christ. Indeed, the council of God is to offer Christ to all who will hear. After all, "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

 

[atpollard]

Just to push back on such unanimity of opinion ...

By what authority do you or I or any man tell another human being that they ARE or ARE NOT saved?

We can lead them to the Cross, but the forgiveness of the cross is not OURS to give.
Perhaps that is what the "snippet" of a larger quoted work was saying. We can lead to Christ, but GRACE is of God and not of man to give. We save no one; we lead to God that saves.

 

[JonC]

Just to push back on such unanimity of opinion ...

By what authority do you or I or any man tell another human being that they ARE or ARE NOT saved?

We can lead them to the Cross, but the forgiveness of the cross is not OURS to give.
Perhaps that is what the "snippet" of a larger quoted work was saying. We can lead to Christ, but GRACE is of God and not of man to give. We save no one; we lead to God that saves.

I do not believe we can. Reading Matthew 7 I get the impression many who believe they are saved will discover otherwise. By outward appearances they exhibited fruits of the Spirit when in reality they were relying on themselves.

Only God can judge the heart.

But we are called to judge the fruit and treat each in accordance to their behavior. The wheat and tares grow together until the harvest.

 

[kyredneck]

It's not enough to simply point people to Christ.

???

15 but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear: 1 Pet 3

Is this not enough?

Our role in evangelism

Did Christ make every one of us evangelists?

 

[JonC]

Did Christ make every one of us evangelists?

Yes and no.

In terms of an evangelist who God gifted to devote his time reaching the lost (as perhaps a vocation) I'd say no.

But in terms of all of us being ambassadors of Christ, ready to give an answer for our faith, witnessing as we go about our lives, I'd say yes.

We all have a role in evangelism, even if not called to be an evangelist.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes and no.

Lol, K.

 

[kyredneck]

all of us being ambassadors of Christ

If you are Sheep ambassador in Goat land, to whom does your duty lie?

 

[JonC]

If you are Sheep ambassador in Goat land, to whom does your duty lie?

To God.

2 Corinthians 5:17-21. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[JonC]

Lol, K.

Yes....I'm running for office.

 

[kyredneck]

To God.

2 Corinthians 5:17-21. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

IMO, if you're honest with the text there's a distinction made between 'we' and 'you', i.e, not everyone is an ambassador OR an evangelist.

 

[DaveXR650]

The premise, as I understand, is that we are to point to Christ without urging people to believe as we do not know who God has chosen to save.

I think there is a part of Calvinism that thinks it is wrong to present the gospel as a proposal or "offer". And the argument they use is the same argument non-Calvinists use - that there are a bunch of people out there that Christ never died for, have no possibility of responding, and therefore it is false to present the gospel in the form of an offer that might be received. The non-Calvinists of course use that argument to debunk Calvinism in general, the Calvinists who believe that use it to attack other more moderate Calvinists who they say are "hypo-Calvinists" or not genuine Calvinists.

There is a problem in Calvinist theology if you are not willing to appeal to paradox or mystery in certain areas. A lot of current Calvinists do this. I'm referring to MacArthur, who flat out says so in a video that is always referred to, and guys like Piper who appeal to "God having two wills". In the old days, Calvinists like Spurgeon simply preached and you could judge him as you wished - which is why my first discovery of a Spurgeon sermon was on an old print copy of "Sword of the Lord" when John R. Rice was still running things. Puritans in their preaching seemed many times to preach in a warm way appealing to men's reason and seemed OK with letting the Holy Spirit sort out all the rest. But in their official explaining of theology they were careful to be totally high Calvinist. And I don't blame them. It seems people played for keeps in those days. I almost never read a modern Calvinist who when quoting Revelation 3:20, doesn't point out how it is improper exegesis to say it has anything to do with salvation of individuals and then I see sermon after sermon of Puritans doing just that. I find it all confusing but it may be just an illustration of why the scriptures as we have them are not written in a systematic theology format for the most part.

 

[JonC]

IMO, if you're honest with the text there's a distinction made between 'we' and 'you', i.e, not everyone is an ambassador OR an evangelist.

Go figure....I disagree (given the overall context). I see the passage as applying to every believer.

 

[kyredneck]

I think there is a part of Calvinism...

FYI, you win the 'first mention of C' award for this thread. Give yourself a peanut.

 

[Silverhair]

Just to push back on such unanimity of opinion ...

By what authority do you or I or any man tell another human being that they ARE or ARE NOT saved?

We can lead them to the Cross, but the forgiveness of the cross is not OURS to give.
Perhaps that is what the "snippet" of a larger quoted work was saying. We can lead to Christ, but GRACE is of God and not of man to give. We save no one; we lead to God that saves.

But if you read the comment you will see that it not, present the gospel, it is do not present the gospel at all but rather leave it to God to pick out those He will save.
"They, under pretense of extra-liberality, go a step, one awful step further, than the Counsel of God, by offering Christ to all their hearers;"

We are to present the gospel to all and those that believe the message and trust in Christ Jesus, God will save. Our duty is to be the guide but only God can save.

 

[kyredneck]

Go figure....I disagree (given the overall context). I see the passage as applying to every believer.

K. We disagree.

I see Sheep ambassadors Paul and Timothy addressing the sheep at Corinth (given the overall context) :

1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints that are in the whole of Achaia: 2 Cor 1

20 We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Cor 5

 

[Silverhair]

IMO, if you're honest with the text there's a distinction made between 'we' and 'you', i.e, not everyone is an ambassador OR an evangelist.

You do not think that the gospel message is worthy of your time and effort to reach out to the lost so that they might be redeemed?