You are taking verses that speak of the elect believers and trying to apply them to the unsaved which is a critical error.
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Our role in evangelism
- Thread starter JonC
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Their duties:
Feed My lambs...tend My sheep...feed My sheep... Jn 21:15-17
28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20
1 The elders among you I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who am also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Tend the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not of constraint, but willingly, according to the will of God; nor yet for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves ensamples to the flock. `1 Pet 5
Sheep ambassadors Paul and Timothy addressing the flock at Corinth:
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints that are in the whole of Achaia: 2 Cor 1
20 We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Cor 5
GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK EWF!
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes because they will not accept the offer made, but that is free will is it not?
I know. Neither were we until we believed.
No. I am applying them to men who will believe (those who will be reconciled, will be justified).
The passage does not refer to men who will not believe, who will not be saved.
There is a reason the verse does not say that we have be one the righteousness of God (that it is not past tense).
God was reconciling man to Himself, urge men to be reconciled to God. Man was reconciled by Christ's death. Men are saved by His life.
You are conflating tenses and meanings.
"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise" (Prov. 11:30, KJV; winneth: Heb. lâqach).
BDB Definition:
"1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away"
For those who doubt the application to evangelism, see Spurgeon's book, The Soul Winner, which I will attach in PDF form.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Mat 28:19 KJV).
Surely you folk are aware that "teach" in this verse is the imperative μαθητεύσατε, "make disciples." I'm amazed that this has not come up yet on a thread about evangelism. The subject cannot intelligently be discussed without referring to the Great Commission--indeed, all five versions of Christ's last command.
BDB Definition:
"1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away"
For those who doubt the application to evangelism, see Spurgeon's book, The Soul Winner, which I will attach in PDF form.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Mat 28:19 KJV).
Surely you folk are aware that "teach" in this verse is the imperative μαθητεύσατε, "make disciples." I'm amazed that this has not come up yet on a thread about evangelism. The subject cannot intelligently be discussed without referring to the Great Commission--indeed, all five versions of Christ's last command.
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Folks, don't argue about this. Go out and do it.
It doesn't matter if you are Arminian, Calvinist, or in between. It's commanded, so go out and do it. Obey the Great Commission. This is not "rocket science" theology.
My best friend from college, a retired policeman, is a Calvinist but a very zealous soul winner. I am not a Calvinist, but still yearn to win souls to Christ our Savior. Yesterday our mechanic sent his son to pick us up so he could get our car back to us, and we found out that the young man had never been saved, though his family had been in and out of church his entire life. When I asked him when he became a Christian, he said he was born as a Christian! I gave him the Gospel in the short distance to his dad's shop, and urged him to get alone, read the tract, and trust Christ as Savior. He said he would.
When we talked to his father, who is born again, we learned he had not been to church for awhile. We urged him to get back in church with his family, and he said he would, so we set up to meet him at the church door Sunday morning. Folks, how can you claim a mature Christianity without proclaiming Christ every chance you get?
It doesn't matter if you are Arminian, Calvinist, or in between. It's commanded, so go out and do it. Obey the Great Commission. This is not "rocket science" theology.
My best friend from college, a retired policeman, is a Calvinist but a very zealous soul winner. I am not a Calvinist, but still yearn to win souls to Christ our Savior. Yesterday our mechanic sent his son to pick us up so he could get our car back to us, and we found out that the young man had never been saved, though his family had been in and out of church his entire life. When I asked him when he became a Christian, he said he was born as a Christian! I gave him the Gospel in the short distance to his dad's shop, and urged him to get alone, read the tract, and trust Christ as Savior. He said he would.
When we talked to his father, who is born again, we learned he had not been to church for awhile. We urged him to get back in church with his family, and he said he would, so we set up to meet him at the church door Sunday morning. Folks, how can you claim a mature Christianity without proclaiming Christ every chance you get?
Thank you brother
I am really conflicted with this. There is a church I visited on Good Friday that never goes out to the community… rather they concentrate on there own selves. Are they truly Christian or are they a private club. I have confronted them with this and get scowls and dirty looks, never effort. Then there is a Methodist church down the block (liberal as ole heck that feeds the poor, destitute, anyone in need). These Methodists have community out reach but don’t ask them about doctrine… they barely know scripture. So what do I do. I won’t join either church cause I truly don’t believe either is a true Christian organization. Oh well, Florida is getting closer as I approach retirement. There I will find( actually have found) a PB Church in Winter Garden.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" ( Colossians 2:13-14 ).
" forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" ( 1 Peter 1:18-19 ) <---- Past tense. Were redeemed with the precious blood of Christ.
" For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." ( 1 Corinthians 6:20 ). <------ Finished work. God's people bought with a price, His Son's blood.
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." ( Acts of the Apostles 20:28 ) <----- Past tense. Again, God's people purchased with His Son's blood.
Yes, it did.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Then why are there people in Hell right now, and many who will be in the Lake of Fire after the Judgement?
Are their sins not paid for, as you have stated?
If so, then they will have nothing to be judged for.
Payment has been made, and the purchased possession now belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Very much so.
No my friend....
God's children, Christ's sheep of His pasture, do not have to believe prior to the Lord writing their names in the Book of Life ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 ).
That was done from the foundation of the world ( Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8 ).
They believe on ( come to ) the risen Christ because He they are His sheep ( John 6:37-47, John 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
… and beyond that is irrelevant to the Gospel. If it is a synergistic work, that is sufficient, and if it is a monergistic work, anything else will make no difference.
I agree with @Silverhair on this one. On the cross God was reconciling man to Himself so that men could be reconciled.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
All,
The believer's role in evangelism is just as the Lord has said...
He works in His children both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
He gives some as evangelists, some as apostles, some as pastors and teachers of the word, and some as other things ( Ephesians 4 ).
He sends the preachers who will preach His word, and His elect will hear them.
Not a single one of those given to the Son by the Father will be lost.
The believer's role in evangelism is just as the Lord has said...
He works in His children both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
He gives some as evangelists, some as apostles, some as pastors and teachers of the word, and some as other things ( Ephesians 4 ).
He sends the preachers who will preach His word, and His elect will hear them.
Not a single one of those given to the Son by the Father will be lost.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Dave. I don't know if you got to read much of the original article in question but it was by Joseph Hussey who was making a case against "offers" of the gospel. I am interested where you stand on that. If you haven't read it then what in your opinion would be a proper way to preach to people. There are verses like you pointed out above that seem to say that names were in the book of life before the foundation of the world. But Colossians ch. 1 talks about those same people being at one time alienated and enemies. It would be possible that some of them would be young enough to have been enemies after Jesus was on the cross. Also, later in ch 1 Paul talks of warning people. Of what? Everything is not I think actually settled. In fact, in that same chapter the people are even warned to continue in the faith. Is there a way to reconcile these things in a logical manner?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Christ Jesus paid the full sin debt for humanity, in other words price paid/bought back. But if the person that has had their sins covered does not accept the fact that Christ Jesus paid that debt they they are saying they can pay their own debt. Those that believe in the risen Christ will be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
His blood paid the sin debt His life saves.
Rom_5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Why do you struggle so much with the text of the bible.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
People are in hell because they do not accept the free gift of salvation. "he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jon 3:18
So your saying that people are saved so they will believe, that is not biblical but it is calvinist.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Your position is internally inconsistent.
God paid the sin debt, but the sin debt is not paid.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So you agree then that God condemns billions to hell just because He can because they can not believe unless He grants them the ability to do so.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Christ Jesus' blood was sufficient to pay for all but is efficient only for those that accept the free offer of salvation through faith. God does not, will not force anyone to come to Him but He will accept all those that do. We have been down this road many times before and you still will not accept that truth.
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