Outrageous! You WILL be offended!

[The Scribe]

Which means more benefits of the doubt should be given for police!

:laugh: Nope :laugh:

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

This police behavior is absolutely illegal and inexcusable!

I hope she wins her lawsuit and all of the personnel in this raw deal are fired.

Our freedoms are slipping away quicker every day.

 

[Chessic]

The two female officers stripped her. The men only hold her down, one at her shoulders, another at her feet as she continues to kick scream and roll and try to get up. The one at her feet appears to by trying to put on leg restraints of some sort but it is not fully shown in this edited video. At a couple of points, the handcuffs, and leg shackles, if any, would have to be removed to take off shirt and pants, and if she was struggling a lot, the men would hold her down while this was done or even do it themselves. Either way, the two women in the video are both doing the stripping. As bizarre as her behavior is, I don't doubt that the police believed she was under the influence of something; PCP is quite common and would endanger both the officers and the woman charged.

There are at least 2 conflicting stories from her camp about when and why she was stripped. The woman, allegedly, first says it was after she answered something like "Today or ever?" to the question "Have you ever though about hurting yourself?" Her husband, however, allegedly claims she was stripped without saying anything at all.

We do not have the question and her answer given on tape. As I said previously, I don't believe the officers suddenly jumped up out of their chairs and attacked her after this question, as she alleges. I believe she is lying. I believe she refused the standard search, and resisted them with kicks and screams, much like in the tape, when they insisted on the routine search any jailed person or one thought to be mentally impaired would get. I suspect the situation continued to get out of hand from there, and got especially dramatic when she became aware that the camera was on her. Much would be solved if we could see a complete tape, but all we have is the tape of what she wanted us to see, edited by what the journalists who have a vested interest in making the tape as shocking as possible.

The woman supplied this video. We are only going to see what she wants us to see in it. The sheriff probably cannot legally just present its own tape to the media, for privacy reasons.

And yes, her repeated screams were answered, not ignored. It is hard to see and hear in the edited video, because the journalist talks over some of the answers.

The claim is that she kept her deceased sister's ID in her wallet as a memorial. There is no independent source backing this up, just her and her lawyer wanting to make her look innocent (which she might have been). It is just as likely she was using another's ID after getting in trouble in a scuffle, and calling the police herself was an attempt to head off suspicion. There's not enough information in this one-sided tape to know what story is true, except that she admits presenting someone else's ID to the police, and seemed to get upset when they refused to return it.

I suspect that the smile on her lawyers face represents the position of the family, anticipating a large settlement. If this had truly been a humanitarian abuse, wouldn't he look more serious, even troubled? The whole thing reeks of melodrama to me, and I'm not sure why some of you place so much more value on a female's body than a male's.

No, I don't want to see people treated like this. But I think the blame lies on both sides, not just the police's. I'd like to see what evidence the other side of the story has, though it will probably never be made public, before buying wholesale the story she and her lawyer are trying to sell.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I'm not sure why some of you place so much more value on a female's body than a male's

Men run around without shirts....women do not.

That IS the police tape. Where else would it have come from?

It sounded like she was having a panic attack to me and with her hands cuffed behind her back and her legs shackled...why did they have to take off her panties and bra???

 

[Joe]

Let me get this straight

The poor woman was assulted, probably frantic with fear and Bbers here think she ought to have been calm, as if she is responsible for male police officers involved stripping her naked? That's insaine!

The fact that there were men involved in strip searching her is plenty enough to discredit the Police and believe HER story.

 

[Joe]

Wow. If that was my wife I would probably be in jail right now.

Ditto

 

[Brother Bob]

Ditto

I think it was insane also. I really believe it was a type of "rape" of this woman. I think they got their "kicks" out of stripping that woman. If anyone don't think that women are not put to such trial by policemen, they are living in a dream world. The same thing happened here but it was a man, two State Troopers didn't like his remarks, took him back on the top of the mountain and pistol whipped him. Thank goodness he was believe and the troopers fired.

The policemen on a whole are just kids with a gun. They are trained to be "gun Ho", as when I served as a military policeman. I have thought a many of a time of them strapping on me a 45 pistol and me 18 years old and was taught to kill. The troopers go through the same training and they also go through a training of not showing an emotion and I think leads to their being so cold in such cases as these. I hope this woman gets enough money to live a life of luxury for the rest of her life.

I am sorry, but this makes me very angry. I will have to pray over it before going to bed.

BBob,

 

[donnA]

As far as a woman is concerned it is a type of rape.
My daughter in laws mother was arrested and released, (because she didn't do anything), and it was amale cop who patted her down, and took a good feel while he was at it. She told my daughter in law it made her feel dirty like she'd been raped.
So yah, as far as this woman is concerned, to her it feels like rape.

 

[Joe]

I agree, and almost posted that. It was rape, as penetration is only a technicality.

Tuesday June 15th 2004, in the Sacramento Bee there was an article (it is in my hand at the moment so I'll be typing from the information) of Sacramento County Sherrifs Male Deputies strip searching women regularly for four years straight. It was during this time I was arrested, and stayed in this jail for 12 hours. A woman I met in this jail was pretty much raped via a strip search, though I met her in jail before it happened. We would later meet again because we shared the same Attorney

She was sitting next to me before we got our pic taken, This was the first I heard of it, she told me she heard this occured regularly in the jail. She was scared. She was young, maybe 20-24, never been in jail and white. Almost all inmates we saw were black except us and the jail staff (interesting eh?, The staff I saw were ALL caucasian). They seperate males and females so I didn't see her after that, and couldn't collaborate her story. She looked into suing the jail but couldn't find a witness. We both had our charges dropped, we shared the same Attorney.

Sadly, what she was left with was far worse than what she had been falsly arrested for. Later my Attorney ( a friend of mine her Attorney) told me she had a nervous breakdown from the experience. That measly $1000 from the class action lawsuit some months later (if she did obtain it )could never cover the trauma.

Anyway, the article says-

David Lind, the chief deputy for correctional services dismissed complaints for four years calling them "wild allegations".

According to the article, the only people appropriately stripped are for violent crimes, serious felonies, and drug offenses yet even those have to be done in private. Funny that I was arrested for a violent crime yet no one strip searched me, yet she was arrrested for a non-violent crime yet got stripped searched in the worse way.

This practice, though it was illegal and widely known, went on in this jail for four years. Right after my arrest, I googled Sacramento County Jail non-stop for about 15 minutes in spurts. Each time I found a website which details horrific abuse by someone who was in that jail. It is often taken down within a few minutes so it must be printed fairly quickly.
A lawsuit was brought about by an out of town group of women (3-4 women) who were thrown in Sac County jail because they were involved in a peaceful demonstration somewhere in the City. They posed no threat to the jail or staff yet were ordered to strip in front of demputies and other prisoners. Calculated humilation according to the Sac Bee article.

Because of their lawsuit, the Sacramento County Jail was ordered to pay 1,000.00 and $3500 in damages to suspects subjectd to humilataing body cavity searches at the downtown jail within a four year period. HIgher amounts went to menstrating or pregnant women at the time and were the targets of taunts. I don't know how they would know who was taunted and stripped without cause but I guess they take people's word for it.

 

[Chessic]

That IS the police tape. Where else would it have come from?

This is the edited-repeatedly police tape. The steps at which it was likely edited could include: first, the camera operator, then the police, the court, the prosecutor, the defense (her attorney and her), and the journalists that made the story. It is quite clear that only a small part of the video made it to this story, and obviously that would be the most shocking-seeming parts.

It sounded like she was having a panic attack to me and with her hands cuffed behind her back and her legs shackled...why did they have to take off her panties and bra???

The underclothes are common places to hide drugs, weapons, tools, and cash. If she was to be held, or was deemed a possible danger to herself, they'd have to check these.

It could have been a panic attack, though that usually includes gasping for breath and some other physical symptoms. But everyone is different.

Men run around without shirts....women do not.

Not sure why one gender wearing clothes over various parts more commonly than another gender would make their bodies of greater worth. Personally I wish men wouldn't go around without shirts, too.

I hope the truth, whatever it may be, comes out in this case. If she was interrogated, there would be a tape of that, too, and her lawyer would have a copy. Maybe if she's telling the truth, they will release that, too.

 

[donnA]

you just keep making excuses for this type of activity going on routinely in our jails in this country. This is the kind of thing you expect in other countries, where women are possessions and to be used anyway men see fit, where they have no such laws, or protection of women.
on the video we see men participating in removing a woman's clothing, what more do we need, it is wrong, and if not illegal there should be. I know it is here.

I'm not sure what she should be interrogated for, she was a victim, who called police for help, and this is the treatment she got for it. Some help, remind me not to call the police.

 

[carpro]

RAPE!!!!!

Not hardly.

The use of that word harms your case more than it helps. I believe some of you are improperly using the word mostly to express your outrage. It doesn't do you credit.

If you're using it in a legal sense, you're setting yourself up for a fall. Take this tape and that woman to a jury and charge them with rape. I promise you the verdict will be "not guilty".

Of course , most of you are not willing to wait for a trial and apparently there won't be a criminal trial. The woman wants money, not justice.

 

[donnA]

In reality, you have no idea what this woman wants, as you are not connected to this case in anyway.
You also have no idea what this is like for a woman, to be forceably stripped naked by men. And yes, it is a form of rape, I don't care if you could convict anyone of it or not. It's the samething to a woman. She was violated.
And your hatred for women disgusts me.

 

[windcatcher]

First of all, once the woman was cuffed, IF it was necessary to strip her for whatever the reason, only women should have been involved in the strip and in the control positions. If there are 'procedures', 'policies' 'standards' in place, it is the responsibility of all employees affected to know the rules, and use their discretion TO REFUSE to participate, or lodge a protest at the start, before proceeding to assist. Whether its a Sheriff's department or a company, or an institution.... it is the policies which protect the action and inaction of employees, AND it is by following the policies that they are preserved from individual litigation.... and, chances are, the policies are well written with advice of counsel or risk management to assure that the policies IF FOLLOWED also protect the employer from litigation.

Interesting point of view:
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2008/02/torture-states-domestic-face.html

 

[The Scribe]

In reality, you have no idea what this woman wants, as you are not connected to this case in anyway.
You also have no idea what this is like for a woman, to be forceably stripped naked by men. And yes, it is a form of rape, I don't care if you could convict anyone of it or not. It's the samething to a woman. She was violated.
And your hatred for women disgusts me.

It is a form of rape. There wasn't any reason to strip her.
It's the law that only women are to be in the room.

First of all, once the woman was cuffed, IF it was necessary to strip her for whatever the reason, only women should have been involved in the strip and in the control positions.

Exactly.

 

[carpro]

In reality, you have no idea what this woman wants, as you are not connected to this case in anyway.
You also have no idea what this is like for a woman, to be forceably stripped naked by men. And yes, it is a form of rape, I don't care if you could convict anyone of it or not. It's the samething to a woman. She was violated.

She may have been "violated". She wasn't "raped". You can't make up the rules for rape as you go along.

If this woman was after "justice" I believe she would have taken her case to the proper legal athorities for charges to be filed.

Instead, here she is 2 years later, going after money. Makes me think she may not have a legal leg to stand on, so she believes a jury will ignore the legal niceties and go with their emotions to find in her favor.

What we don't know is what really precipitated this forcible disrobing. Apparently you don't care.

I do.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I have only heard one side of the story, but I can tell you this...if I was the victim of an assault and the police arrested ME and forced me to be stripped naked in front of men...I would be in such a state of panic , and so scared, and outraged, that I would be kicking, biting, screaming, crying, praying out loud, and probably a few things I hadn't thought of yet.

Yes, they would have thought I was crazy. When having a panic attack, one acts crazy.

Regardless of the circumstances, this woman was not treated with concern and legal precedents.

Police officers are supposed to be trained as to what to do when someone is in a state of panic.

I know this for a fact because I helped to train our local police department, firemen, and paramedics.

When one is having a panic attack, the worst thing one can do is subdue them by force and not let them move.

I wonder if they tried 'talking her down' before they undressed her...

If they had no knowledge of what to do, they should have called the paramedics to sedate her, not shackle and strip her.

Where is our compassion people?

There but for the grace of God.....

 

[carpro]

I have only heard one side of the story, but I can tell you this...if I was the victim of an assault and the police arrested ME and forced me to be stripped naked in front of men...I would be in such a state of panic , and so scared, and outraged, that I would be kicking, biting, screaming, crying, praying out loud, and probably a few things I hadn't thought of yet.

What if they first gave you the opportunity to disrobe in a private place with only female guards in attendence and you refused?

 

[Chessic]

you just keep making excuses for this type of activity going on routinely in our jails in this country.

I've made absolutely no claims about whether this or any other woman or man should be treated in this way either routinely or at other jails.

This is the kind of thing you expect in other countries, where women are possessions and to be used anyway men see fit, where they have no such laws, or protection of women.

I'd submit to you that what could have happened in a "third world country" is far worse. Do you think the police would have recorded the event if they were "raping" her, having fun, or thought that they were acting in any way inappropriately? They were taping the event precisely to protect themselves from any claims of abuse.

on the video we see men participating in removing a woman's clothing

Tell me exactly what minute and second of this video clearly shows any man removing her clothes. You will find men holding her down, men prying her fingernails and hands off of a female officer, men positioning her body to face the wall and the mat she is on (to protect officers from her spitting, which can spread diseases), and men removing and applying restraints. Where does a man remove her clothes?

I'm not sure what she should be interrogated for, she was a victim, who called police for help, and this is the treatment she got for it. Some help, remind me not to call the police.

If you are going to present false ID, portray yourself as a mentally disturbed person and a suicide risk, refuse to be searched, and scream and kick and claw at officers, yeah, you might not want to call.

You believe she was a victim simply because the woman and her lawyer say so? Without even knowing her past record or whether she had started fights before or made accusations against the police frequently or had been strip searched before or was under the influence or what a psychiatrists thought of her behavior? She at least agrees that she presented a false ID to police and was in a fight. So let's see, someone else started the fight, she "accidentally" presented a false ID, then the police jumped her, entirely unprovoked, and stripped her, then denied her a phone call and medical attention! Boy she had a bad day; the whole universe ganged up on her that day, hunh? Let's give her money, imo.

Notice the video and audio of her talk with the responding officers, leading to her being put in the cruiser, were not included, nor were anything she said or did on the way to the station, though these events would be recorded.

In the story, the journalist says she began to scream when they removed her underclothes. Yet she was screaming at the beginning of the edited tape, fully clothed, as 2 female officers apparently remove her belt.

Why is she just now coming forward with this grinning attorney and edited tape? If she was so outraged, why wasn't this brought to media attention immediately?

You also have no idea what this is like for a woman, to be forceably stripped naked by men.

While I can't deny this statement, what is its relevance? I'm sure (a woman) being stripped naked (by men) is as bad as a man being stripped naked by men. What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying procedures and safety measure should be scrapped if its uncomfortable or scary for a woman involved?

And yes, it is a form of rape, I don't care if you could convict anyone of it or not. It's the samething to a woman. She was violated.

In our legal system, a victim's feelings do not establish the crime. Whether it was the "same thing" as rape in her mind or not doesn't matter. She can feel any way she wants; that won't change the law and what the police are required to do.

And your hatred for women disgusts me.

It seems you are allowing your emotions to dictate your understanding of people's comments here and causing you to make untrue assumptions and charges against them. While I enjoy a good leading question or statement, such as this one, as much as the next person, no one in this thread has indicated hatred of women. It is possible to believe this woman broke the law at multiple points, threw a fit rather than submit to standard procedures, and released a biased statement and edited tape for the purposes of media attention and/or financial gain without hating women.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

What if they first gave you the opportunity to disrobe in a private place with only female guards in attendence and you refused?

I would want to know WHY I was disrobing as I was a victim and not a perpetrator!

I, too, would like to know why she was arrested in the first place. The matter of the driver's license could have been taken care of when (and IF) she handed them the correct one.

There are a lot of questions that remain unanswered here. I am just relating how I would act in a similar situation (if I had done nothing wrong)...