P.O.D. GUITARIST IS REPLACED.

[Eric B]

av1611 (Watkins) does dmage their own credibility with the ranting and often sassing they do. If the old-liners had decades ago tried to sit down with the rebelling youth and discuss things reasonably (and didn't presuppose "older is always better), then maybe we wouldn't be having these controversies over music and translations today.
But to be fair, from what I have seen, they are nothing like landoverbaptist (which I see mentioned every now and then). I just looked at that for the first time, and that is SICK. In fact, is it even a real church? One of the pages said something at the bottom "Parody by Americhrist". It could be non-Christians mocking at how they view Christians. When they actually show a diagram of a woman inserting a menstrual device (which they are condemning), and say that pornography is OK for widows and over 65 (if you think about Christ and not lust), then that can't be for real.
Then KJVO/anti-CCM ministries mentioned here are nothing like that, but they can be irrational at times leading people to think they are at least heading in that direction.

 

[JonathanDT]

Sorry, I forgot that the thread was actually started on "hard" rock music before it quickly focused on POD. It takes many different angles, but it really is fascinating to read.
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000383


LandoverBaptist.org is a spoof site. Its just satire for legalists like av1611.com. Read av1611's article on Santa Claus. Stupidest thing I have EVER read. Sounds exactly like something from landoverbaptist. Oh, and read their article on the significane of 11 during the 9/11 attacks. I stand behind my statement, av1611.com is full of slander, lies, misrepresenations, and sensationalism.

 

[Eric B]

Who does the landoverbaptist site then?

As for Santa, there are asome grains of truth, infortuantely lost amidst the letter rearranging hypothesis. It is true that Santa is basically a false Christ figure, possessing such divine attributes as omniscience, omnipresence, supernaturalism (squeezes down chimney, flies to every house in the world in one night, etc)rewarder of good. It's amazing that people actually get kids to believe in that for real, until we grow up and learn that it is physically impossible (and then "that Jesus Christ business" starts looking suspicious as well as one writer pointed out). That is enough to condemn it, but as always people like Watkins resort to rampant sensationalism.

 

[Aaron]

I visit Watkins' site every now and then. There is some value in his sources. He may exaggerate a bit, but he was saved out of the rock'n'roll culture. His zeal is understandable.

 

[Eric B]

Understandable, yes, but we have to beware of projecting our guilt-ridden weak consciences on everyone else. Many of the other loud critics of rock and CCM such as Cloud and Godwin came out of an immoral secular hard rock culture as well.

 

[Aaron]

As we must beware of an underlying wantonness.

 

[dubuquebbc]

MusicMoz lists their style of music as Christian Rock: musicmoz.org/Bands_and_Artists/P/Payable_on_Death/
Christian Rock Lyrics lists them under their site:
www.christianrocklyrics.com/pod.php

Just my thoughts.....

As my Pastor says....if they dress like the world, talk like the world, act like the world, perform like the world, and hang out with the world.....they must be of the WORLD.

I used to perform in a variety of Rock and Country Bands before seeing the music for what it represents....pure evil. We do not need to water down the message of Christ with worldly music...whatever happened to telling people that they are lost and destined to HELL. God is not just LOVE...He is returning to JUDGE those who rejected His offer of Love in the life of His Son, Jesus.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
I also don't agree with David Cloud on everything, but I have met the man, and spent time with him. To see him called a jerk kinda hurts. I really wish you wouldn't do it, Mike. I respect your opinion, but maybe you could be more specific in what you don't like about him.

Basically, I just think he's a jerk because he condemns everyone and everything who doesn't fit into his twisted little view of Christianity.

I can't find the thing he did on Veggie Tales, but that was one of the most bizzare things I've ever seen. It made Ozzy Osbourne look like the model of mental health.

I also think his blanket condemnations of contemporary music an sports, of all things are over the top.

Ernie Brazee posted a thing Cloud wrote about long hair and that was more than just a little odd, too. Several of us here had a good laugh over that.

BTW, I see you (I think) at the www.hannity.com blogspot. You do some nice stuff there. Good to see you. [/QB]

Thanks. That's me. I'm posting there less and less because there's just so much trash to wade through.

I like Sean Hannity but if it were me, I'd be a little more attentive to what I put my name on.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

The problem with Cloud and many who post here concerning Contemporary Christian Music, among other things (such as the KJV issue) is that they have already made up their mind before they read what they are criticizing. They try to appear neutral, but they enter with a bias already. Nothing that is posted will ever change their mind. Their intent is to condemn others that disagree with them.

The one word that describes them the best is LEGALISTIC.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I agree that David Cloud's biggest problem is that he adds his own viewpoints, and seems to consider them inspired. No problem there. But in his defense,(limited), he isn't as "KJVO" as people think. And he was involved in music, drugs, and Eastern religions for a while.

But I agree with his critics, he has hurt his ministry with opinions.

But I can't say that av1611 has any merit to it at all. It's a pretty hateful site.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
But I can't say that av1611 has any merit to it at all. It's a pretty hateful site.

It's not as hateful (although it is that) as it is just stupid.

Somebody on another board tried to show me using one of their charts that 300 rock musicians had committed suicide or something. We pasted the chart and by the time I pointed out (from their own words) that only a handfulof them died as a result of suicide and subtracted those who weren't even rock musicians to begin with, there were only about ten or so who had committed suicide.

What made it all so funny is that, when you compare these numbers with the population at large, the rock community actuall had lower incidences of suicide.

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by dubuquebbc:
As my Pastor says....if they dress like the world, talk like the world, act like the world, perform like the world, and hang out with the world.....they must be of the WORLD.

hello! second post!

This makes perfect, obvious sense but there will be those who will quibble over the definition of "the World".

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Su Wei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dubuquebbc:
As my Pastor says....if they dress like the world, talk like the world, act like the world, perform like the world, and hang out with the world.....they must be of the WORLD.

This makes perfect, obvious sense but there will be those who will quibble over the definition of "the World". </font>[/QUOTE]This makes perfect, obvious sense, but the Bible doesn't clearly define what it means to be "of the world", at least not as that phrase is commonly used in Christian circles these days.

 

[JonathanDT]

Originally posted by dubuquebbc:
As my Pastor says....if they dress like the world, talk like the world, act like the world, perform like the world, and hang out with the world.....they must be of the WORLD.

Ahh Su, not only will we quibble with the "world," but also with this presumption that POD can be judged by us using these standards. One piece at a time.

if they dress like the world

Ummm, you do realize that dressing in a suit coat and tie is dressing like the world, right?? Look around at all the secular business men, ever see pictures of the criminals that ran Enron?

talk like the world

Ever read the lyrics of their songs? Try it. They do NOT sound like the world. I could post some lyrics so you could contrast, but I would probably get in trouble for posting the secular lyrics. But if you want I can post some POD lyrics.

act like the world

Do you personally know POD? Have you ever met them? Do you have any contact with them? Are you at least neighbors or something? No? Then how can you honestly say they act like the world? You CAN'T.

perform like the world

Huh? This is a new one for me. POD has a unique sound, a unique stage presence. So they don't perform like the world. But if you've been to one of their concerts personally then you are qualified to disagree with me intelligently. Otherwise...

hang out with the world

You mean like Jesus did? Jesus was a FRIEND of taxpayers and sinners. He went to their HOMES. He ATE with them. But now you'll condemn POD for doing the same? Ouch.

God bless,
~JD

_________________________________________
Disclaimer: I mean absolutely no offense or disrespect by disagreeing with you. I've been misinterpreted before so I just want to be clear. I'm just not very good at sugarcoating.