Ok, now you are stretching the point of this thread. Your subject was praying with people and not about refusing to having supper with them. :BangHead:
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Palin's prayer remark angers former staffers
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
Ok, now you are stretching the point of this thread. Your subject was praying with people and not about refusing to having supper with them. :BangHead:
If you read the posts you will see it was someone else, in fact I believe it was you, who brought up not associating with Hindu's or praying with them. That seemed to me to be stretching the point of the OP.
I wonder who SP would pray with? Guess we will never really know.
You don't have any biblical basis for this. Show me where Christ prays with unbelievers. You can't. You can only base your opinion on human emotion. And the heart is wicked.
How did they associate with Christ ? Did they approve of his preaching ? Or did they kill him for it ?
windcatcher
New Member
I remember working in a hospital...... that's a secular job.... right?
Ocassionally a patient would ask me to pray for them. The hospital had rules about even these request.... that we were supposed to be sensitive and inclusive of all religious beliefs. But I consider a request for prayer as a very personal request and never involved the hospital by bringing it up...other than the brief moment of my time with the patient while I was still on the clock. I always asked the patient and informed the patient of these things. I asked them if they wanted me to pray with them right then..... If the answer was yes...... and at first it surprised me that often it was afirmative..... Then I'd inform them that I was a Christian and I would be praying in Jesus name, so would that offend them? I never got a 'yes' answer from any who requested. We'd then talk about any particular concerns which they had and wished to include in the prayer..... then I'd pray sofly with them.... and depending upon how I felt led... might ask them if they wanted to join in to do so..... before I closed the prayer 'in the name of Jesus we pray, Amen.' I worked in an environment where I often felt I had offended this person or that person...employees..... but never had a complaint returned against me for having prayed with a patient.
As far as Palin's staff is concerned..... wasn't it chosen for her by the McCain campaign? From the leaks which came out.... her ill preparation..... and the targeting of questions specific to areas which could line her up for ridicule..... if she had any staff that were fully in her corner..... then she never had the opportunity in the whirlwind of a speedy campaign to know who the insiders were that were with her and who the insiders were that resented her...... and I think her cup had plenty of the later.
One might pray for their enemies....... but one doesn't pray with the enemy. I'm not saying that any of her staffers were 'enemies' but in as much as some harbored any ill will at all towards her or what she believed, or any resentment over McCain's choice of VP..... she didn't have around her exactly what I'd consider as loyalists or friends. The very fact that these are continuing to defend themselves by their own touchy offense at her remarks..... is an indication that they never fully sided with her..... and add justification to her feelings that there was noone to join her in prayer.
However, be that as it may, the campaign is over and this is trivial: The people got what they wanted and likely what they deserve. Many are discovering now, what they were unwilling to see before the election, that as far as conservatism..... there is very little of it in either party ...... but it was mostly in the Republican.... but the Republican party is not wholely representative of conservative or constitutional or moral values.
If Christians would unite around those morals and values which are Biblically directed as the expression of their LIVING FAITH, then, as a block of voters.... we COULD turn this country around. However as long as we put Party loyalty above Christ, and put more trust in the power of political machines than we do in the power of the Holy Spirit, we will just keep playing into the hands of those in both parties which disrespect our God and ridicule our beliefs and are determined that we drop out of issues concerning the government of our country.
One day, and maybe soon...... they will get their wish .....when the true bride of Christ is raptured out, and the world and its devil control both peoples and governments.
Ocassionally a patient would ask me to pray for them. The hospital had rules about even these request.... that we were supposed to be sensitive and inclusive of all religious beliefs. But I consider a request for prayer as a very personal request and never involved the hospital by bringing it up...other than the brief moment of my time with the patient while I was still on the clock. I always asked the patient and informed the patient of these things. I asked them if they wanted me to pray with them right then..... If the answer was yes...... and at first it surprised me that often it was afirmative..... Then I'd inform them that I was a Christian and I would be praying in Jesus name, so would that offend them? I never got a 'yes' answer from any who requested. We'd then talk about any particular concerns which they had and wished to include in the prayer..... then I'd pray sofly with them.... and depending upon how I felt led... might ask them if they wanted to join in to do so..... before I closed the prayer 'in the name of Jesus we pray, Amen.' I worked in an environment where I often felt I had offended this person or that person...employees..... but never had a complaint returned against me for having prayed with a patient.
As far as Palin's staff is concerned..... wasn't it chosen for her by the McCain campaign? From the leaks which came out.... her ill preparation..... and the targeting of questions specific to areas which could line her up for ridicule..... if she had any staff that were fully in her corner..... then she never had the opportunity in the whirlwind of a speedy campaign to know who the insiders were that were with her and who the insiders were that resented her...... and I think her cup had plenty of the later.
One might pray for their enemies....... but one doesn't pray with the enemy. I'm not saying that any of her staffers were 'enemies' but in as much as some harbored any ill will at all towards her or what she believed, or any resentment over McCain's choice of VP..... she didn't have around her exactly what I'd consider as loyalists or friends. The very fact that these are continuing to defend themselves by their own touchy offense at her remarks..... is an indication that they never fully sided with her..... and add justification to her feelings that there was noone to join her in prayer.
However, be that as it may, the campaign is over and this is trivial: The people got what they wanted and likely what they deserve. Many are discovering now, what they were unwilling to see before the election, that as far as conservatism..... there is very little of it in either party ...... but it was mostly in the Republican.... but the Republican party is not wholely representative of conservative or constitutional or moral values.
If Christians would unite around those morals and values which are Biblically directed as the expression of their LIVING FAITH, then, as a block of voters.... we COULD turn this country around. However as long as we put Party loyalty above Christ, and put more trust in the power of political machines than we do in the power of the Holy Spirit, we will just keep playing into the hands of those in both parties which disrespect our God and ridicule our beliefs and are determined that we drop out of issues concerning the government of our country.
One day, and maybe soon...... they will get their wish .....when the true bride of Christ is raptured out, and the world and its devil control both peoples and governments.
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Magnetic Poles
New Member
The world's most famous "hockey mom" could have a witch hunter pray over her, but refuses to pray with her staff? Just plain weird.
windcatcher
New Member
CTB, I think the confusion is over what others posted in brief and what you think they mean by their post.
In the context of this thread..... association means something closer and more intimate than eating with, visiting, or enjoying the company of.... as at a ball game or a block party. In the context of this thread association gains a more narrow meaning..... that of identifying with another in faith.
A Christian can and should be able to associated with all people .....generally speaking.... but not worship in a pagan temple or offer inscence and prayers to a pagan god, or knowingly do anything which might be mistaken as a breach in our loyalty for Christ and his Word.
If a known pagan ask us to pray for them or to say a prayer.... that we can do 'in Jesus name'. But if the same person asks me to pray with them..... I cannot. There is no "with them" without some basis of spiritual agreement.
In the context of this thread..... association means something closer and more intimate than eating with, visiting, or enjoying the company of.... as at a ball game or a block party. In the context of this thread association gains a more narrow meaning..... that of identifying with another in faith.
A Christian can and should be able to associated with all people .....generally speaking.... but not worship in a pagan temple or offer inscence and prayers to a pagan god, or knowingly do anything which might be mistaken as a breach in our loyalty for Christ and his Word.
If a known pagan ask us to pray for them or to say a prayer.... that we can do 'in Jesus name'. But if the same person asks me to pray with them..... I cannot. There is no "with them" without some basis of spiritual agreement.
windcatcher
New Member
We have little control over who prays for us... or to what god or God, or when. But when prayer is a choice we make and particularly when it is because of our own need.... we are wise if we are discerning before exposing our vunerabilities to others before requesting that they pray.
Sometimes someone has a request for a loved one who has left the relationship of family. I will pray for that family and that person: However, without discussing with that family first and finding agreement, I donot feel comfortable in asking God 'to do whatever it takes' to answer that prayer. "Whatever it takes' may cost more than that family is willing to committ at that time for the return of that loved one back to the fold. Prayer with others requires some levels of agreement and faith in God that he hears and can answer prayer.
Amen brother, amen. That is the point that I have been trying to make.
Show me where he said we are not to pray for unbelievers?
We all killed him, you, me and every last person who has ever lived in the world. He died for all our sins.
Once again, you DISHONESTLY try to change what I said. Not the first time, either. I will not address your statement, as it is an obvious attempt to twist my words, and is not worth the time or effort it would take to do so. When you are ready to address what I said, you can.
Nice dodge, but if you live for Christ, the world will hate you. There are words to that effect, in scripture. You should study more, and try to slam conservative Christians, less.
Not really. For every question there is a second question in the opposite direction. I assume you used your dodge because you cannot show me any scripture I ask you to show.
Christ's life show us we are to go to the unlovely, the unbelieving, the sick, the poor, the lame and to witness and, obviously, to pray for them. Christ associated with the rejected of his day, the sinners, the lepers. After all what was the greatest criticism of Christ by others in his day, that he ate and associated with sinners. Christ only came down hard on the arrogant religious folk who believe they had it all figured out.
The world hates Christians, the world hates Moslems, the world hates Hindus. The entire world does not hate Christians. The entire world does not hate Moslems. The entire world does not hate Hindus. You dodge doesn't work as there are people who are hated in each religious precisely because they are believers in their religion. In fact, the world hates those who do not believe.
And all of us did kill him. None of us can point fingers at others. We are all guilty. Your sins nailed him to the cross just as my sins nailed him to the cross.
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Magnetic Poles
New Member
She had full control. Linkie
Thanks for getting us back on the topic. You are right. It was she who in actuality refused to pray with others.
I never said Palin was at fault for what she did, I was just explaining the complaint.
Now if I were to fault Palin, it would not be for what she did. It is the prayers of the righteous that availeth... If I were to fault her it would be for SAYING what she did. Some things in life are left better between you and the Lord.
Nope. You deliberately changed my words. Big difference. Show me where Christ prays with unbelievers. You still can't. Changing my words is a dishonest attempt to prove a point you could never make, with scripture. And why should I bother even talking to you when you change my word from "with" to "for" ? Why shouldn't I be able to call you a liar ?
Wrong again. The lepers, and the others have nothing to do with this. Christ wouldn't even pray with the Pharisees, or the Saducees. Show me where he did.
What ? You condraticted yourself three times, and are making no sense. But let me clear it up for you. Christ wouldn't pray with Muslims, or Hindus.
I didn't call for Christ's death. The Romans didn't either. It was the Jewish religious leaders, whom Christ shunned, that demanded his death. Read your bible.
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Yes, let's get back to Mrs. Palin. Good for her. She painst a good picture of Christ, in this instance.
windcatcher
New Member
Just how much control does she have over anyone praying? Whether or not the prayer is for her.... how can she stop another from praying?
Your statement saying she has full control doesn't make sense.
As a matter of fact.... I'm sure she had many people praying for her.... many which she did not know..... many who did so without her asking them to.
Another makes a good point....... somethings would better be left unsaid.
Some of these discussions on this board comes to my mind:smilewinkgrin:
BigBossman
Active Member
I have often looked at prayer as personal. When I pray, I have never sought out someone to pray with.
Every member of this board is a professed Christian, but there are only two or three that I would want to pray with.
She had been around the campaign staffers long enough to know there was no one there she felt comfortable praying with.
Perhaps she expected her request would be rejected.
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