PARABLES

[Charles Meadows]

Here's one for you KJVO guys (and gals):

Jesus saw fit to teach in parables - so that all could understand. He did not simply go around quoting the OT. Is this not an example for us? Is it then wrong to simplify the scriptures (as Jesus did) by making them easier to read? My Sunday school class members (college kids) all like the NKJV and NIV because they understand them - instead of having ME interpret the KJV speak for them.

I cannot help but think if Jesus were to start posting here tomorrow He would say to the KJVO camp - "stop judging others and read the GOSPELS again - didn't you read what I said to the Pharisees?"

 

[rbrent]

“Jesus saw fit to teach in parables - so that all could understand.”

Luke 8:10 - “Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.”

“Jesus saw fit to teach in parables...Is this not an example for us?”

Paul said: Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” I Cor 11:1

Paul said: “Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.” I Cor 4:16

Paul said: “Brethren, be followers of me...” Phil 3:17

 

[GrannyGumbo]

But it seems to me that it isn't the "KJVOs" who always start these kind of threads...

And it seems strange to me that a college man, or anyone for that matter, can figure these terribly complicated 'puters out, but say they have a hard time with the KJBible? "A person understands what he wants to"!

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
But it seems to me that it isn't the "KJVOs" who always start these kind of threads...

And it seems strange to me that a college man, or anyone for that matter, can figure these terribly complicated 'puters out, but say they have a hard time with the KJBible? "A person understands what he wants to"!

But why demand a busy college student also learn an ancient language in order to grow close to God?
I'm 33 yrs old and I have trouble with the English in the KJB.
Maybe I'm not as smart as you Granny.

Or, I'm just used to understanding things in the language I use!

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by tinytim:
But why demand a busy college student also learn an ancient language in order to grow close to God?

Why shouldn't a college student learn the ancient languages of Hebrew and Greek? Such knowledge is absolutely essential to a fruitful ministry.

I'm 33 yrs old and I have trouble with the English in the KJB.

Oh, come on!

Or, I'm just used to understanding things in the language I use!

The language of the KJV IS the language you use, it is called "Modern English!"

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by skanwmatos:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tinytim:
But why demand a busy college student also learn an ancient language in order to grow close to God?

Why shouldn't a college student learn the ancient languages of Hebrew and Greek? Such knowledge is absolutely essential to a fruitful ministry.

I'm 33 yrs old and I have trouble with the English in the KJB.

Oh, come on!

Or, I'm just used to understanding things in the language I use!

The language of the KJV IS the language you use, it is called "Modern English!" </font>[/QUOTE]Say what?
Doest thou talkest like this when thou orderest a Big Mac at Mcdonalds? And when was the last time you told someone that you loved, that your bowels moved for them!!
Come on, you know we don't use KJV language today. That was a mis-statement.

If KJV language is what you call modern, I feel sorry for you.

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

But why demand a busy college student also learn an ancient language in order to grow close to God?

Well thats exactly what happens when a person goes off to "cemetary." They are required to learn a language that has been shelved now for over 1000 years;funny though,they can learn the meaning of Koine Greek,but cannot "figure out" that tired,archaic English of the KJB


Like we say in our part of the country:

"that dog just wont hunt!"

 

[Charles Meadows]

I'm glad not everyone has shared your views on education or we would still be living in the dark ages!

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

I'm glad not everyone has shared your views on education or we would still be living in the dark ages!

We are back in the dark ages.Back in 1881 the dark age Jesuit mss. from North Africa was placed in the hands of the common people,via 200+ conflicting Alexandrian "bibles."

 

[Ransom]

Charles Meadows said:

I'm glad not everyone has shared your views on education or we would still be living in the dark ages!

Don't confuse the formidable scholarship of the misnamed "Dark Ages" with the blissful ignorance of 20th-century KJV-onlyism.

 

[Ransom]

Anti-Alexandrian said:

We are back in the dark ages.Back in 1881 the dark age Jesuit mss. from North Africa was placed in the hands of the common people,via 200+ conflicting Alexandrian "bibles."

Speaking of blissful ignorance . . .

The Society of Jesus was founded in 1540 by Ignatius of Loyola, and hence could have nothing to do with the production of "dark age mss. from North Africa" which predates them by at least 1000 years.

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

The Society of Jesus was founded in 1540 by Ignatius of Loyola, and hence could have nothing to do with the production of "dark age mss. from North Africa" which predates them by at least 1000 years.

Granted.

But,they use those dark age mss.(produced by Gnostics and Philosophers in Alexandria,Egypt) just as the Catholics did,and still do.
Strangley enough,those are the same mss. in today's "bibles"(214 now).


So yes,ignorance is blissful.

 

[HankD]

Well thats exactly what happens when a person goes off to "cemetary." They are required to learn a language that has been shelved now for over 1000 years;funny though,they can learn the meaning of Koine Greek,but cannot "figure out" that tired,archaic English of the KJB

But don't forget A-A, the Apostles had the true gift of tongues, they had acquired a language not their own without all the hard work, study, memorization, etc.

Today those who preach/teach the Gospel must go back to the "koine" of the 1st century to translate original language texts and bring it into the koine of 21st century (or the 17th century) and yes they must attend a "cemetary (as you put it)" to learn the Greek and Hebrew.

BTW did the Anglo-Roman Catholic schools of the KJV translators qualify as "cemetaries"?

Today, as the KJV translators prophetically pointed out, the true "sense" of the Scriptures can more accurately be determined by those who can't or won't learn the original languages because of the proliferation of those translations.

We have seen several wrestling matches of certain verses with differing interpretation on nuances of words when bringing them and our proofs forward into our present day English.

IMO these struggles are good in that they cause us to pray, think and meditate on the Scriptures which is much better than name calling.

HankD

 

[skanwmatos]

Originally posted by tinytim:
If KJV language is what you call modern, I feel sorry for you.

No, I feel sorry for you, and those whom you teach. Are you completely unaware of the history of the English language? You tout yourself as a Youth Pastor yet you seem ignorant of the very basics regarding your own language. Just where did you go to college?

Old English: 500 AD - 1100 AD
Middle English: 1100 AD - 1500 AD
Modern English: 1500 AD - Present

I suggest you do just a little more study on this subject before you start "feeling sorry" for those who have studied it!

 

[Charles Meadows]

Doft thou see the novelty of the King James' verbage, yeah even the modernity thereof?

Tim, our brother, how canst thou say that these words do yet wax olde.

But soft - methinks I do hear Skan, even Skan!
He doth seek to correct thy grievous misunderstanding!

Now there's modern for ya Tim!!

 

[Precepts]

But don't forget A-A, the Apostles had the true gift of tongues, they had acquired a language not their own without all the hard work, study, memorization, etc.

And by your interpetation this "acquired" language is?

My Bible tells me they spake as the Spirit gave them utterance/reason to speak, each "HEARING" them speak in their OWN language.

There we have it, Pentecostalism promoted through mv's.

The key that unlocks the Parables is the Spirit of God, not education provided in the "cemetary" as AA so righteously and accurately posted.

 

[HankD]

My Bible tells me they spake as the Spirit gave them utterance/reason to speak, each "HEARING" them speak in their OWN language.

Oh, OK then, the gift of "ears".

HankD

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by skanwmatos:
The language of the KJV IS the language you use, it is called "Modern English!"

Not so at all!! King James English differs greatly from American English. My language is American English, not Shakespearean English of the 1600's. It is not wrong or unbiblical to use a Bible that was written in American English.

Grannygumbo, the KJV prevents the NIV.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Anti-Alexandrian:
Well thats exactly what happens when a person goes off to "cemetary." They are required to learn a language that has been shelved now for over 1000 years;funny though,they can learn the meaning of Koine Greek,but cannot "figure out" that tired,archaic English of the KJB

Are you saying it is not profitable for a person to learn the language that the Bible was written in? I think everyone should learn Greek and Hebrew, regardless of what translation they use. Besides, there are as many KJV users as non-KJV users who don't understand KJV English. The KJV use of the word "brass" or "corn" are just two examples. By knowing the original words for these, it results in a better understanding. And that doesn't even begin to address teh shortcoming in pretty much all English translations when it comes to the word "love" in the NT. In English, there's only one word, but in koine Greek, there are several. Whether you read the KJV or NIV, it's impossible to distinguish by context whether Jesus and Peter are talking about agape or phileo in John 21. All the learning of KJV English won't shed light on this. Knowing the original greek words, however, will.

 

[Precepts]

Whether you read the KJV or NIV, it's impossible to distinguish by context whether Jesus and Peter are talking about agape or phileo in John 21. All the learning of KJV English won't shed light on this. Knowing the original greek words, however, will.

That ISN'T True. The emphasis is on the context exactly on the intensity of that love. Anyone with any rationality can stop and consider the passage as such. Jesus wasn't trying to indicate that Peter didn't love Him, nor was Jesus calling Peter a liar.

I already knew the difference between love for my brother in Christ, love for my immediate family, love for Christ, and love for my wife, long before I ever heard the words "agape" and "phileo".

Sorry, I don't need Greek to help me understand what I already know in English.