Part 3, Earth Millions of Years Old?

[Marcia]

I asked the mods to close the other thread at the request of a poster who was having trouble there. He said the names on some of the posts were truncated. Hopefully, that will not happen here. There were a lot of pages on the other thread anyway.

So here we are with part 3. :wavey:

 

[Ed Edwards]

Yes, the EARTH is millions of years old.
Yes, the WORLD is 6,000 years old.

EARTH - a planet circling around a Yellow Star (AKA: Sun) which is in turn a super black hole in the Milky Way Galaxy some 33,000 light years from the black hole(s).

Light Year - a distance that light travels in one year. Note 'Light Year' is a DISTANCE measurement, not a TIME measurement.

WORLD - the human governance on the Earth. 'World' is also known as 'the World Order' - it has always failed. So unless the Lord God steps in, the current World Order will fail also.

 

[OldRegular]

Yes, the EARTH is millions of years old.
Yes, the WORLD is 6,000 years old.

EARTH - a planet circling around a Yellow Star (AKA: Sun) which is in turn a super black hole in the Milky Way Galaxy some 33,000 light years from the black hole(s).

Light Year - a distance that light travels in one year. Note 'Light Year' is a DISTANCE measurement, not a TIME measurement.

WORLD - the human governance on the Earth. 'World' is also known as 'the World Order' - it has always failed. So unless the Lord God steps in, the current World Order will fail also.

Confusing. Are you confused?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Confusing. Are you confused?

Ed makes perfect sense.

The He's saying that yes the Earth is millions of years old yet still 6,000 years old. He saying the earth revolves around the sun which is only 8 light minutes away from us or 1 AU (Astronomical Unit) and that in turn the sun its self is on the outer fringe of the Milkyway Galaxy that spins around a black hole (at ithe galaxy center) about 10 Kpc or Kilo parsec from our sun. 10 kpc = 32600 light years which Ed rounded off by saying 33,000 light years away. He mentioned that the term light year is not a time measurement but a distance one and it is measure by how far light can travel in one year. The term world means human governance of the world and that it is also known as the world order and that unless God steps in and help that world or world order that is governed by men will invariably fall apart as do all men centered things. See that wasn't so hard!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

This is my contention:

You and I agree but not with the final analysis. This is what I mean. God didn't make up a story. He narrated in such a way as to have us understand what's important. By God's words the universe is created but not how you think.
like with your reproduction analogy. I tell my young Children that God made Daddy with a seed who then gives it to Mommy. God helps Mommy add to the seed and grow the baby in her belly. Now everything. I said is true. But my kids may misunderstand what kind of seed I'm speaking of (Appleseeds?) or how long the process is or all of the rest. Did I lie? No. Was I purposely deceptive? No. But for their level of understanding I gave them enough information to continue with. As they get older all that other stuff will be flushed out.
I look at the creation account in Genesis the same way. Its an outline like my explanation to the kids. If they took me literally the way they understood it they may come up with all sorts of weird ideas. It tells the truth and explains esential aspects of what information needs to get accross but it is by no means a manual on creation. The Like another poster (who believes in a literal view of creation) said there is something poetic because of how the 1st day relates to the 4th day and so on. I agree but not with a literal 6 day creation but an outline.

1:And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

4:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day

where the 4th day is a subset of the first day. God created light and then organized them into stars galaxies etc...

2: And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

5: 20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day

then God created the seas and the life associated with them day 5 is a subset of day 2

3: 11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

6: 24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

And so God created the land and the creatures on them. Day 6 is a subset for day 3 and the day man was created.
So its not deceptive but outline and the days aren't meant to be taken literally. It catagorizes the process. Creation of light and then organizing into the universe, Creation of the sea and sea animals, creation of land and all land animals to include the creation of man.

Days 1-3 General outline
days 4-6 More specific.

 

[OldRegular]

Ed makes perfect sense.

The He's saying that yes the Earth is millions of years old yet still 6,000 years old. He saying the earth revolves around the sun which is only 8 light minutes away from us or 1 AU (Astronomical Unit) and that in turn the sun its self is on the outer fringe of the Milkyway Galaxy that spins around a black hole (at ithe galaxy center) about 10 Kpc or Kilo parsec from our sun. 10 kpc = 32600 light years which Ed rounded off by saying 33,000 light years away. He mentioned that the term light year is not a time measurement but a distance one and it is measure by how far light can travel in one year. The term world means human governance of the world and that it is also known as the world order and that unless God steps in and help that world or world order that is governed by men will invariably fall apart as do all men centered things. See that wasn't so hard!

Glad to see that Ed has an interpreter on board. Now if you could just explain some if his posts on dispensationalism. Of course I put both in the same category.

By the way the velocity of light is not invariant!

 

[Palatka51]

Which came first, the Chicken or the egg?

If God created the egg, He would have to sit on it until it hatched. Now the Bible does tells us that God created a sexually mature chicken to do what chickens do to make more chickens.

Likewise God created a fully mature world in 6 days to allow His whole creation to thrive.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Thinkinstuff, great analogy.

 

[Ed Edwards]

...

By the way the velocity of light is not invariant!

Yes, the velocity of light is a function of the mass by which it goes.
As a result there are areas of space 10 or 11.8 Billion Light Years away that bend (and slow down somewhat) the light from even further aways showing two copies of ultra dense star formations within 250 Million years of the Big Bang. That makes the computable time since the Big Bang some 12 Billion years +/- 500 Million years. I think God created the Universe 15 Billion Years ago (my suspected number, not that it matters) by speaking a word. I have NO idea what 'word' or 'words'. I was not consulted when God did the engineering of the Laws of Physics. I consider that to be a Godly rejection of my Engineering techniques (though the World Order considered that I did a pretty good engineering job and gave me a retirement at age 63). Jesus is Lord and I am His willing slave. And that is not going to change by MY OPINION of it. God created the Universe IMHO 15 Billion Years ago and the Earth chunk of it IMHO about some 4.5 Billion years ago. What is important and significant is that God created the Universe and created the Earth. What is trivial is me knowing what God's schedule looks like. Other parts of the Bible indicate to me that God is not held by our schedules, but works nicely with His own.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Glad to see that Ed has an interpreter on board. Now if you could just explain some if his posts on dispensationalism. Of course I put both in the same category.

By the way the velocity of light is not invariant!

I have no idea what Ed has said about dispensationalism. Personally, I'm more covenant theology rather than dispensationalist. Though I do like Pez candy dispensers and I'm certain that there are a few dispy that are sensationalist. But I'll be glad to review them if you want to start a nother thread.

 

[TCGreek]

A few days ago a brother and I were conversing about this matter over coffee.

My conclusion: it doesn't matter. I'm only responsible for what is revealed in the Word of God, the 66 books of the Bible (Deut. 29:29).

 

[Jarthur001]

A few days ago a brother and I were conversing about this matter over coffee.

My conclusion: it doesn't matter. I'm only responsible for what is revealed in the Word of God, the 66 books of the Bible (Deut. 29:29).

And what is revealed about creation in the Bible?

 

[TCGreek]

And what is revealed about creation in the Bible?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1).

Now as we progress into the days of creation, we are forced to ask, Are they literal 24hr-days and so on?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Thinkinstuff, great analogy.

Thanks MP I appreciate it.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1).

Now as we progress into the days of creation, we are forced to ask, Are they literal 24hrs days and so on?

Thats the conclusion I came to. Which is why science doesn't bother me. Its when you get dogmatic about creation that strange ideas prop up like,... Have you heard someone say that demons are the spirits of the Antideluvian people? Or that dinosaurs were put in the earth just to give it a feel of being old. Or that there was a different world order from genesis 1:1 than in 1:2. Or that the "watchers" taught actual magic to the women they married. Etc...

 

[TCGreek]

Thats the conclusion I came to. Which is why science doesn't bother me. Its when you get dogmatic about creation that strange ideas prop up like,... Have you heard someone say that demons are the spirits of the Antideluvian people? Or that dinosaurs were put in the earth just to give it a feel of being old. Or that there was a different world order from genesis 1:1 than in 1:2. Or that the "watchers" taught actual magic to the women they married. Etc...

I don't lose sleep over the issue. It's not a salvation issue for me.

And if anyone makes it a salvation or fellowship issue, that's a pity.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I don't loose sleep over the issue. It's not a salvation issue for me.

And if anyone makes it a salvation or fellowship issue, that's a pity.

I won't. And The only derogatory thing that has been thrown my way is that I don't take the scriptures seriously. And It's not a salvation issue. Just like I don't believe pre-trib; post tribe, mid trib, amillenial, post millenial or whatever else there is are salvation issues.

 

[Jarthur001]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1).

Now as we progress into the days of creation, we are forced to ask, Are they literal 24hr-days and so on?

What is in the text of the Bible that allows a non-literal meaning? Or are you looking outside the Bible for your understanding of the text?

 

[Jarthur001]

Thats the conclusion I came to. Which is why science doesn't bother me. Its when you get dogmatic about creation that strange ideas prop up like,... Have you heard someone say that demons are the spirits of the Antideluvian people? Or that dinosaurs were put in the earth just to give it a feel of being old. Or that there was a different world order from genesis 1:1 than in 1:2. Or that the "watchers" taught actual magic to the women they married. Etc...

Nor does science bother young earth believers.

You have shown that you are dogmatic about having a old earth. You see the faith in the young earth, but fail to see you have your own faith in the old earth. Both models are based on faith.

 

[TCGreek]

What is in the text of the Bible that allows a non-literal meaning? Or are you looking outside the Bible for your understanding of the text?

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I thought you got that. :thumbs:

I'm interested only in the redemptive story.