Thank you, my brother.
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Part 3, Earth Millions of Years Old?
- Thread starter Marcia
- Start date
Thank you, my brother.
If you are only interested in the redemption story, then you must hold to the literal understanding of Gen. 1+.
Jesus died for our sins, according to the scriptures. Why? Where did sin come from? Gen. 1 explains were we came from. Gen. 3 explains how sin entered into the world.
Romans 5 directly links the fall of man as recorded in Gen. 3 to the redemption of man found in Jesus Christ. There is your direct link to redemption.
If Adam is a myth, then the explanation of scripture of how sin entered into the world, why it kills us, and why Jesus had to redeem us from it is just a myth as well.
peace to youraying:
Now you've created a strawman, as if I've said all those things, and wish to destroy them.
Where did you learn to engage in a debate like that? Wow!
Please refute what I've said, not what I didn't say or even insinuated.
Incredible nonsense, I say!
Like BB Warfield and RC Sproul...
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Ed
I believe your reasoning is screwed up. The earth makes a complete rotation each 24 hours. That constitutes one day!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Oh, good grief. I haven't accused you of wanting to destroy anything, brother. I haven't accused you of saying anything, other than "I am only concerned with the redemptive story."
I am trying to show you why a literal interpretation of Gen.1-3 is directly linked to the redemption of man in the person of Jesus Christ.
Do you agree that they are linked?
peace to you
raying:Oh, good grief. I haven't accused you of wanting to destroy anything, brother. I haven't accused you of saying anything, other than "I am only concerned with the redemptive story."
I am trying to show you why a literal interpretation of Gen.1-3 is directly linked to the redemption of man in the person of Jesus Christ.
Do you agree that they are linked?
peace to you
I was not addressing Gen. 1-3.
My concern was about the "days," not 1-3.
Take me at my words. :thumbs:
Marcia
Active Member
But didn't these ideas of a day for long ages being with the Higher Critics? I'm not surprised some contemporary people agree.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You stated that you believe Moses was influenced by ANE myths in writing the creation account. That is much more than "concern about the "days"", or the meaning of "yom".
But, nevertheless, I'll take you at your words and drop the matter.
peace to you
raying:
Trotter
<img src =/6412.jpg>
A day is a day is a day. God has altered the length of the day twice, and He recorded both times in the bible. He did not record changing the duration of the day during creation.
The earth and world are only as old as Adam plus five days. That's nice and simple. How do I know? God said it, so I believe it.
What about the signs of an old earth? Like erosion? and fossils? and really old trees? I have a nice simple answer for you... God made it like that. God loves variety; just look at the people around you to see it. Why would have make a perfect sphere, or just flat land, or no fully-grown vegetation? If there were no trees or vegetation Adam and Eve would have starved right off the bat.
I used to be one who tried to explain creation as days being ages of millions and billions of years. God finally had me sit down and read what He said. I then realized that I was making God out to be weak and unable to actually "create" at His own word. I repented and took Him at His word.
As far as the influence on moses, I believe he, just like all the other bible authors, wrote what God gave them to write. Moses was not there at creation, so he had to get his info from the Source.
The earth and world are only as old as Adam plus five days. That's nice and simple. How do I know? God said it, so I believe it.
What about the signs of an old earth? Like erosion? and fossils? and really old trees? I have a nice simple answer for you... God made it like that. God loves variety; just look at the people around you to see it. Why would have make a perfect sphere, or just flat land, or no fully-grown vegetation? If there were no trees or vegetation Adam and Eve would have starved right off the bat.
I used to be one who tried to explain creation as days being ages of millions and billions of years. God finally had me sit down and read what He said. I then realized that I was making God out to be weak and unable to actually "create" at His own word. I repented and took Him at His word.
As far as the influence on moses, I believe he, just like all the other bible authors, wrote what God gave them to write. Moses was not there at creation, so he had to get his info from the Source.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
At times like these I always like to quote my favorite evolutionist, A. J. Mattell:
“Those liberal and neo-orthodox Christians who regard the creation stories as myths or allegories are undermining the rest of Scripture, for if there was no Adam there was no fall; and if there was no fall, there was no hell; and if there was no hell, there was no need of Jesus as Second Adam and Incarnate Savior, crucified and risen. As a result the whole biblical system of salvation collapses. .... Evolution thus becomes the most potent weapon for destroying the Christian faith.”
“Those liberal and neo-orthodox Christians who regard the creation stories as myths or allegories are undermining the rest of Scripture, for if there was no Adam there was no fall; and if there was no fall, there was no hell; and if there was no hell, there was no need of Jesus as Second Adam and Incarnate Savior, crucified and risen. As a result the whole biblical system of salvation collapses. .... Evolution thus becomes the most potent weapon for destroying the Christian faith.”
You stated that you believe Moses was influenced by ANE myths in writing the creation account. That is much more than "concern about the "days"", or the meaning of "yom".
But, nevertheless, I'll take you at your words and drop the matter.
peace to you
Thank you, for I wish not muddle the redemptive story either.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
And your authority is?
Fact 1: there are 24 time zones on the earth, each with a different time
Fact 2: During a '24-hour day' there will be 24 different hours in my time zone.
24 + 24 = 48.
Sunday March 29 2009 began ON EARTH 18 hours prior to 24 hours ago (it is almost midnight local time) - that is 42 hours ago. Sunday March 29 2009 will end 6 hours from now in the last time zone just East of the International Date Line. 42+6=48.
Meanwhile, Monday March 30 2009 began just west of the International Date Line about 18 hours ago. It will last in my time zone for 24 hours and then last 6 more hours after it leaves here. 18+24+6 = 48.\
Each dated '48-hour-day' lasts 48 hours somewhere on the Earth.
It is a fact. It is NOT debatable like opinions are.
Want to loose an 'argument' about the distance between Midnight, 31 Dec, 0001BC and the start of AD 0001? ANSWER: an instant
Care to loose an 'argument' about when the 21st Century Began? (It began on 01 Jan 2001, right after midnight on the last day of the 20th Century (2000).
People who don't know what 'day' (English) or what 'yom' (Hebrew) mean should probably stand down from temporal disucssions :godisgood:
Here is a good solid truth also:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
They are not linked. The reality of redemption in Christ Jesus is NOT a function of the assumed 'literal interpretation' of what 'yom' means. And, BTW, most any understanding of the word 'day' (as in Gen 1-3), including the 16 meanings of 'day' I listed above (up topic), is LITERAL.
The non-saving meaning of 'day' = 24 hours ONLY hides the Salvation of Messiah Yeshua from the intellectual. We who minister to folks with University & College degrees are having our hands tied witnessing by other folks claiming to be Christian but tied to the un-Biblical, un-Christian 'Doctrine of Ignorance'. The false 'Doctrine of Ignorace' teaches that God can not use intellectual people to be good preachers, soul winners, etc -- God can only use ol' country boys, saved by grace. Sorry folks, God saves folks with PHDs (Doctor of Philosophy degree) same as igits:
Romans 10:9 Latin Vulgate (AD 0485)
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]quia si confitearis in ore tuo Dominum Iesum et in corde tuo credideris quod Deus illum excitavit ex mortuis salvus eris[/FONT]
Yep, salvation is that simple.
Here is Ed's 'God's Preservation of the Bible' Axiom:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
So now we have a college degreed intellectual on our hands who thinks there are 48 hours in each day. Just like your rationale on the 48 hour day, Ed, many of the problems within the Christian Church are caused by some degreed intellectuals who take on a God Complex.
I don't believe either John Gill or Charles Spurgeon had a college education but they could run circles around any degreed individual today when it comes to knowledge of Scripture.
Instead of Messiah Yeshua how about just Jesus Christ for us non intellectuals.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
That would just be Jesus. Jesus Christ is Yeshua Ha'Mashiach for the uneducated types. :laugh:
However, I don't see how disagreeing with you gives someone a "God" complex. If fact it sounds like some here have education envy (to play with a freudian term). If fact if you insult someone who disagrees with you does that not mean you in fact have a "God" complex? I mean doesn't the bible say that a man's soul is in danger if they call someone a fool? Does that cover all insults? I wonder.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You read something into my response to Ed that was not there. Is that a habit of yours or just a Freudian slip? You have no idea of my education or my intellectual capability. You are like many people, and Ed is apparently of the same opinion, who believe that anyone who accepts the Biblical revelation that God created the universe in six days is a fool.
I have no idea whether or not I have insulted you in previous posts. If you disagree with Scripture I may well have simply by pointing out the Truth of Scripture. I never have and never will apologize for doing that. I cannot help if you consider that an insult. I will say that I consider your above remarks, and Ed's bragging in his last post, as insulting not only to me but to many others on this Forum
I know you enjoy agitating people; does that qualify as calling them a fool or is that another Freudian slip on your part. [You are keeping Freud busy tonight.] I also know that I have not implied that anyone on this Forum is a fool though I did indicate I thought Ed needed an interpreter for some of his posts. Furthermore, you did show on one occasion you had the ability to translate for him. However, you still have not yet explained how he came up with a day that is 48 hour long. Help please!
It is a fact that many so-called intellectual theologians go off the deep end in an attempt to demonstrate their learning and intelligence? by questioning everything in the Special Revelation of God. As I recall Bishop Pike was one of those and disappeared in Israel some years back. I doubt he was translated. Does that mean I have a God complex?
I don't know about you but when God saved me all my sins; past, present, and future, even sins I may commit while posting on this Forum, were forgiven and cast into the depths of the sea.[Micah 7:19]
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
A little Scripture Ed for your edification and perhaps the path to a little humility before God:
1Corinthians 1:18-29
18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28. And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.
These Scripture will also be beneficial to your translator, Thinkingstuff!
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It is a fact that God did not create 'time zones'. He created day and night which constitute a 24 hour day. The rest is purely human reasoning superimposed upon a God defined time. In each of those time zones a day is determined to be, how many hours? Can you guess? Yep - 24. A day according to science is determined by the full rotation of the earth (divided into two sections - light (day) and dark (night), which takes 24 hours to conclude one full rotation. The rest of what you are playing games is meaningless when speaking about what constitutes a day.
I can agree and for those who wish to bring in man made adaptations and newly redefined meanings to these words, also need to recognize them for what they are and leave them out of the discussion as well.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I was responding to your responce to Ed. Lets take a look at what you said:
So your catagorizing Ed. I can almost sence a sneer as you say it. Especially when you follow up with
Almost as if you have a distaste for education. However, I would argue that Gill or Spurgeon were educated because they studied what mattered to them. Just for referrence I spent time in Tennessee studying pentecostals (primarily COG) and sat in small mountain Churches where pastors derided education constantly but then turn around and say the most outrageous things about scripture yelling as they did (common preaching style for the COG). I'm not saying you're like them but I get the same sense. Their believe seems at times to be: have less education but more babbling in the spirit. It poked a nerve with me.
I don't always like to agitate people. Sometimes I like to argue for arguing sake. And I suspect this offends you and I apologize for that. However, that doesn't mean I agree with your premise or reasoning.
As for a God complex this is what you assume with Ed. here:
So in otherwords educated people take on a "God complex" I was just showing you that if you feel the need to insult someone (like ed) because they disagree with your premise that maybe the notion that you're always right is like having a God complex. Some of the great Christians were very educated and should not be descriminated against because of that education. Which you seem to be doing.
Finally, I have no idea how educated you are. You may have a doctorate for all I know. I'm not claiming to be as educated as you and certainly not as much as Ed. or Dr. Bob or many others on this site. My "Freudian" referrance was a humorous twist of an outdated psychological consept that he coined which is too course to mention here. I eliminated the course referrence and in-putted an appropiate one. The statement was meant to be humorous. Which obviously wasn't taken that way.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You read something into my response to Ed that was not there!