Particular Baptists

[evangelist6589]

Dr. Bob is a particular Baptist and historic fundamental baptist. I see we agree on the alcohol debate and his church uses wine at the lords supper which seems very rare for a baptist church in my experience. Can someone please explain to me what is particular baptist and historic fundamental baptist? How do they differ from the IFB Baptists? Thanks..

 

[rlvaughn]

Particular Baptist is terminology that at least goes back to the English Baptists who were divided into Particular Baptists -- believed in a "particular" or limited atonement -- and General Baptists -- who believed in a general atonement. This theology would be represented by the First London Confession, Second London Confession, Philadelphia Baptist Confession, et al. In America the Particular Baptists gradually changed their modifier to Regular Baptist (and many dropped the Particular Atonement view as well). I am not aware of any group of Baptists (such as an Association, Fellowship or Convention) that calls themselves Particular Baptist, but some churches and individuals identify themselves that way to emphasize their view of the atonement (and probably avoid the terminology "Calvinist," which many Baptists don't like). I'm guessing on Historic Fundamental Baptist that he may be emphasizing the emphases of the original fundamental Baptists in the early 20th century on the "Fundamentals" before being fractured by all sorts of secondary issues. [But it would be better if he explains what he means.]

 

[Salty]

Check out this page:

 

[evangelist6589]

Particular Baptist is terminology that at least goes back to the English Baptists who were divided into Particular Baptists -- believed in a "particular" or limited atonement -- and General Baptists -- who believed in a general atonement. This theology would be represented by the First London Confession, Second London Confession, Philadelphia Baptist Confession, et al. In America the Particular Baptists gradually changed their modifier to Regular Baptist (and many dropped the Particular Atonement view as well). I am not aware of any group of Baptists (such as an Association, Fellowship or Convention) that calls themselves Particular Baptist, but some churches and individuals identify themselves that way to emphasize their view of the atonement (and probably avoid the terminology "Calvinist," which many Baptists don't like). I'm guessing on Historic Fundamental Baptist that he may be emphasizing the emphases of the original fundamental Baptists in the early 20th century on the "Fundamentals" before being fractured by all sorts of secondary issues. [But it would be better if he explains what he means.]

Are you saying that those fundamental baptists were open to alcoholic beverages while today's are mostly teetotalists?

 

[TCassidy]

Can someone please explain to me what is particular baptist

They were Calvinists rather than Arminians.

historic fundamental baptist?

The original fundamental baptists in the US left the Northern Baptist Convention (Now American Baptist Churches) starting in the 1920s, separating over doctrinal issues.

The later fundamental baptists in the US separated from the Southern Baptist Convention largely over control of the denomination and "standards." That exodus increased when the SBC began to yield to the Theological Liberalism (Modernism) of apostate Christendom.

How do they differ from the IFB Baptists?

They are sane?

Later IFBs:

KJVO
No pants on women
No mixed swimming
No movie going
No social drinking
Secondary Separation taken to the extreme of isolationism
No accreditation of bible colleges and seminaries
And some other

 

[evangelist6589]

They were Calvinists rather than Arminians.

The original fundamental baptists in the US left the Northern Baptist Convention (Now American Baptist Churches) starting in the 1920s, separating over doctrinal issues.

The later fundamental baptists in the US separated from the Southern Baptist Convention largely over control of the denomination and "standards." That exodus increased when the SBC began to yield to the Theological Liberalism (Modernism) of apostate Christendom.

They are sane?

Later IFBs:

KJVO
No pants on women
No mixed swimming
No movie going
No social drinking
Secondary Separation taken to the extreme of isolationism
No accreditation of bible colleges and seminaries
And some other

Sounds like Bob Jones University and my former church and their legalistic standards.

 

[rlvaughn]

Thanks, Salty. I see from that page their is some type of fellowship bearing the name particular.
Particularbaptist.com - Australia's Particular & Reformed Baptist Home Fellowship Network

 

[Jerome]

Particular Baptist Church Directory

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I consider myself a Historic Northern Baptist. My home church was founded in 1881. It was affiliated with the Northern Baptist movement and zero involvement with the SBC. The NBC wasn't formed until twenty years later. Doctrinally, we pretty much stand where we stood in 1881. IOW, the NBC changed we didn't.

 

[Jerome]

Pastor Louis Sawyer was a speaker at the Southern Baptist Convention in 1907!

 

[rlvaughn]

Are you saying that those fundamental baptists were open to alcoholic beverages while today's are mostly teetotalists?

I wasn't saying anything about alcoholic beverages, but I doubt many early 20th century fundamentalists were all that open to alcohol as a beverage. But that is just my perception. I have not made any study of it.

 

[Jerome]

Association of Historic Baptists

William Styles published a book in 1902 entitled, “A Guide to Church Fellowship, as Maintained by Primitive, or Strict and Particular Baptists”.
On pages 78 and 79,...“Duty-Faith is Denied by All Strict and Particular Baptists”

 

[evangelist6589]

I wasn't saying anything about alcoholic beverages, but I doubt many early 20th century fundamentalists were all that open to alcohol as a beverage. But that is just my perception. I have not made any study of it.

Well I am reading a book on the history of alcohol in the church and so far it was very accepted as a beverage while alcohol abuse shunned.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well I am reading a book on the history of alcohol in the church and so far it was very accepted as a beverage while alcohol abuse shunned.

Think that it was in more armianin circles such as Holiness pentacostalists and Nazarenes where full alcohol shunning was observed/practiced!

 

[Jerome]

Think that it was in more armianin circles such as Holiness pentacostalists and Nazarenes where full alcohol shunning was observed/practiced!

Huh?

Here's what an early leader of your own denomination (North American Baptist Conference) was preaching in 1913:

Christianity and the Social Crisis (1913) by Walter Rauschenbusch, p. 376

"the Church can act as a conservative influence....For instance, the custom which barred alcoholic drinks from respectable and educated homes is now being undermined...,and the Church should undertake a new temperance crusade with all the resources of advanced physiological and sociological science. The head of an important Eastern institution a few years ago proposed to introduce beer in the social gatherings of students in order to make them more sociable. Such an innovation would...create the habit of moderate drinking in many young men"

 

[Yeshua1]

Huh?

Here's what an early leader of your own denomination (North American Baptist Conference) was preaching in 1913:

Christianity and the Social Crisis (1913) by Walter Rauschenbusch, p. 376

"the Church can act as a conservative influence....For instance, the custom which barred alcoholic drinks from respectable and educated homes is now being undermined...,and the Church should undertake a new temperance crusade with all the resources of advanced physiological and sociological science. The head of an important Eastern institution a few years ago proposed to introduce beer in the social gatherings of students in order to make them more sociable. Such an innovation would...create the habit of moderate drinking in many young men"

Most Baptist that I have met would be in the vein though of either option is viable, and still think that those groups I mentioned would be much more strictly no alcolhol at all allowed!

 

[rlvaughn]

Well I am reading a book on the history of alcohol in the church and so far it was very accepted as a beverage while alcohol abuse shunned.

Among early 20th century fundamentalists?

 

[Yeshua1]

Among early 20th century fundamentalists?

Thought hat most of them saw Budwiser/Miller as Devils brew?

 

[evangelist6589]

Among early 20th century fundamentalists?

Have not reached that chapter yet.

 

[rlvaughn]

Have not reached that chapter yet.

OK. Thanks. I think in church history you probably won't find a predominance of the teetotalism we are used to until you reach the temperance movement.