Passive Occupy protesters take pepper spray blast

[Arbo]

No I gave proof. If it is not enough for you then do your own homework.

One article with one paragraph with one sentence about one individual is not proof.

You are wrong and know it. You seem to be too proud to admit it, or you just don't care about the truth when you make insulting statements.

 

[poncho]

I agree, but here is the question. Were the orders lawful? What law were they breaking?

Now that everyone has had a chance to put in their two cents and take sides it turns out that the police were acting unlawfully and overstepping their authority.

University of California Police are not authorized to use pepper spray except in circumstances in which it is necessary to prevent physical injury to themselves or others.

From the University of California’s Universitywide Police Policies and Administrative Procedures: “Chemical agents are weapons used to minimize the potential for injury to officers, offenders, or other persons. They should only be used in situations where such force reasonably appears justified and necessary.”

… UC police are not authorized to use physical force except to control violent offenders or keep suspects from escaping.

Another quote from the UC’s policing policy: “Arrestees and suspects shall be treated in a humane manner … they shall not be subject to physical force except as required to subdue violence or ensure detention. No officer shall strike an arrestee or suspect except in self-defense, to prevent an escape, or to prevent injury to another person.”
​

Read on . . .

I suppose now the hypocrites who have consistantly taken sides with the "authorities" no matter how brutal and tyrannical their actions have been proven will no doubt come out and try to twist logic beyond all reason to shield these thugs from accountability. "Kid "A" moved his foot in the wrong direction! Beat him down!" Or, "that girl tried to wipe the pepper spray out of her eyes, that's a threatening move! Beat her down!"

That's how it usually works around here. Citizens are held to the letter of the law while the "authorities" are allowed to get away with mass murder and looting on a global scale.

Thugs acting under the color of law are always given a pass by the good Christian folks here abouts. Always!

Bush and Obama get a pass for starting illegal wars and causing the deaths of thousands and the misery of millions. No problem. The law be damned. It's all for a "good cause".

But . . .

Let a few kids sit in a circle and try to protest the actions of these crimminals and tyrants and boom all of a sudden we start caring whether the law has been broken.

Hypocrites.

No one is above the law. Not even your precious lilly white "authorities" who act like they are our new gods and rulers.

Hypocrites.

I hope these thugs and their "superiors" get their black military uniforms sued right off their backs.

 

[freeatlast]

Now that everyone has had a chance to put in their two cents and take sides it turns out that the police were acting unlawfully and overstepping their authority.

University of California Police are not authorized to use pepper spray except in circumstances in which it is necessary to prevent physical injury to themselves or others.

From the University of California’s Universitywide Police Policies and Administrative Procedures: “Chemical agents are weapons used to minimize the potential for injury to officers, offenders, or other persons. They should only be used in situations where such force reasonably appears justified and necessary.”

… UC police are not authorized to use physical force except to control violent offenders or keep suspects from escaping.

Another quote from the UC’s policing policy: “Arrestees and suspects shall be treated in a humane manner … they shall not be subject to physical force except as required to subdue violence or ensure detention. No officer shall strike an arrestee or suspect except in self-defense, to prevent an escape, or to prevent injury to another person.”
​

Read on . . .

I suppose now the hypocrites who have consistantly taken sides with the "authorities" no matter how brutal and tyrannical their actions have been proven will no doubt come out and try to twist logic beyond all reason to shield these thugs from accountability. "Kid "A" moved his foot in the wrong direction! Beat him down!" Or, "that girl tried to wipe the pepper spray out of her eyes, that's a threatening move! Beat her down!"

That's how it usually works around here. Citizens are held to the letter of the law while the "authorities" are allowed to get away with mass murder and looting on a global scale.

Thugs acting under the color of law are always given a pass by the good Christian folks here abouts. Always!

Bush and Obama get a pass for starting illegal wars and causing the deaths of thousands and the misery of millions. No problem. The law be damned. It's all for a "good cause".

But . . .

Let a few kids sit in a circle and try to protest the actions of these crimminals and tyrants and boom all of a sudden we start caring whether the law has been broken.

Hypocrites.

No one is above the law. Not even your precious lilly white "authorities" who act like they are our new gods and rulers.

Hypocrites.

I hope these thugs and their "superiors" get their uniforms sued right off their backs.

:thumbsup:
Thank you for that post.

 

[poncho]

Pepper Spraying America!

View some paintings of our new American reality HERE.

Freedom = dangerous extremism.

https://plus.google.com/11637411792...soSqE#116374117927631468606/posts/NDYJEnsoSqE

Police Pepper Spray 84-Year Old Woman, Priest, Pregnant Woman and Blind Woman with a Cane.

What a bunch of heros eh?

"Oh but wait a minute there Poncho, there was an "incident" with a couple protesters that "forced" the police to act like Nazi goons against everyone."

"So there it's all justified and yer a kook for not not defending the poor police officers that are using chemical weapons that are banned from use against Al Qaeda on our own citizens".

 

[Don]

Now that everyone has had a chance to put in their two cents and take sides it turns out that the police were acting unlawfully and overstepping their authority.

University of California Police are not authorized to use pepper spray except in circumstances in which it is necessary to prevent physical injury to themselves or others.

From the University of California’s Universitywide Police Policies and Administrative Procedures: “Chemical agents are weapons used to minimize the potential for injury to officers, offenders, or other persons. They should only be used in situations where such force reasonably appears justified and necessary.”

… UC police are not authorized to use physical force except to control violent offenders or keep suspects from escaping.

Another quote from the UC’s policing policy: “Arrestees and suspects shall be treated in a humane manner … they shall not be subject to physical force except as required to subdue violence or ensure detention. No officer shall strike an arrestee or suspect except in self-defense, to prevent an escape, or to prevent injury to another person.”
​

Read on . . .

I suppose now the hypocrites who have consistantly taken sides with the "authorities" no matter how brutal and tyrannical their actions have been proven will no doubt come out and try to twist logic beyond all reason to shield these thugs from accountability. "Kid "A" moved his foot in the wrong direction! Beat him down!" Or, "that girl tried to wipe the pepper spray out of her eyes, that's a threatening move! Beat her down!"

That's how it usually works around here. Citizens are held to the letter of the law while the "authorities" are allowed to get away with mass murder and looting on a global scale.

Thugs acting under the color of law are always given a pass by the good Christian folks here abouts. Always!

Bush and Obama get a pass for starting illegal wars and causing the deaths of thousands and the misery of millions. No problem. The law be damned. It's all for a "good cause".

But . . .

Let a few kids sit in a circle and try to protest the actions of these crimminals and tyrants and boom all of a sudden we start caring whether the law has been broken.

Hypocrites.

No one is above the law. Not even your precious lilly white "authorities" who act like they are our new gods and rulers.

Hypocrites.

I hope these thugs and their "superiors" get their black military uniforms sued right off their backs.

Poncho,
In general, you are correct: No one is above the law. That is why a military guard posted at an entry control point (not in a war zone) should not simply shoot at a vehicle approaching his position at a high rate of speed, even though his supervisor ordered him to do so.

Let's look at a couple of other things in that same Procedures policy:

Chapter 4, section 401.1:
(a) All orders issued are to be presumed lawful.
(b) Employees shall comply with all lawful orders promptly.
(c) No supervisor shall knowingly issue an order which is in violation of any law, University policy, procedure or regulation.

Section 403:
The refusal of any employee to obey a lawful order given by a ranking employee may be cause for immediate suspension from duty by a ranking employee and/or corrective action or dismissal by the Chief of Police in accordance with applicable Personnel Policies.

Section 404:
Employees shall obey the lawful orders of ranking employees at all times. Should an employee believe that an order received is unlawful, in conflict with any order previously given or with any department order, and if circumstances permit, the employee shall point out the conflict to the ranking employee who issued the order. If the conflict is not eliminated, the order shall stand, and be obeyed to the best of the employee's ability. The responsibility for the order remains that of the ranking employee.

With those kind of policies in place, kinda intimidates the employees to do their job or face termination. Not an excuse, just something to consider.

(personally, not a policy I agree with, even if later paragraphs offer "conflict resolution" methods)

Now, I've found a conflict with your second point about the use of force:
"...officers may use such reasonable force as is necessary to affect an arrest, to prevent escape or to overcome resistance." (Section 901)

So you have an opening paragraph that almost contradicts a subsequent paragraph (the one you referenced). The subsequent paragraph does state "ensure detention"; but that's not what these campus cops were trying to do. At best, they were "overcoming resistance."

Seems to me their entire policy needs to be reviewed and revised.

 

[poncho]

Poncho,
In general, you are correct: No one is above the law. That is why a military guard posted at an entry control point (not in a war zone) should not simply shoot at a vehicle approaching his position at a high rate of speed, even though his supervisor ordered him to do so.

Let's look at a couple of other things in that same Procedures policy:
With those kind of policies in place, kinda intimidates the employees to do their job or face termination. Not an excuse, just something to consider.

(personally, not a policy I agree with, even if later paragraphs offer "conflict resolution" methods)

Now, I've found a conflict with your second point about the use of force:
"...officers may use such reasonable force as is necessary to affect an arrest, to prevent escape or to overcome resistance." (Section 901)

So you have an opening paragraph that almost contradicts a subsequent paragraph (the one you referenced). The subsequent paragraph does state "ensure detention"; but that's not what these campus cops were trying to do. At best, they were "overcoming resistance."

Seems to me their entire policy needs to be reviewed and revised.

Seems to me we need less hypocrisy and more real patriotism. The kind of patriotism that upholds the law and not those abusing the law for their own gain or personal protection from prosecution.

Or for the sake of gaining or holding onto power alone.

I guess I'm just one of those kooks that still believes black is not white and wrong is not right, war is not peace and ignorance is not power and freedom is not slavery. Gee no wonder I never fit in around here.

 

[Don]

Seems to me we need less hypocrisy and more real patriotism. The kind of patriotism that upholds the law and not those abusing the law for their own gain or personal protection from prosecution.

Or for the sake of gaining or holding onto power alone.

I guess I'm just one of those kooks that still believes black is not white and wrong is not right, war is not peace and ignorance is not power and freedom is not slavery. Gee no wonder I never fit in around here.

You should run for office.

 

[freeatlast]

Seems to me we need less hypocrisy and more real patriotism. The kind of patriotism that upholds the law and not those abusing the law for their own gain or personal protection from prosecution.

Or for the sake of gaining or holding onto power alone.

I guess I'm just one of those kooks that still believes black is not white and wrong is not right, war is not peace and ignorance is not power and freedom is not slavery. Gee no wonder I never fit in around here.

Just remember. Some people will deny good to protect their beliefs no matter the amount of evidence that is given to prove them wrong or how evil their belief is. Men and women have died for our freedoms and now many of the very ones who have or do wear the same uniforms stomp on the graves of those who have died by helping the destruction of our liberties, freedoms and rights to show criminal authority.

What those police did was criminal and even the dumbest of the dumb could see that on the video. They were not being attacked, and they were not trying arrest anyone. They just decided to harm some people lead my an ex-military man under the covering of authority.

 

[Don]

Results of the task force that investigated the incident; but not the "final" word on the subject.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/n...of_uc_davis_leaders/srvc=home&position=recent

UC Davis administrators were woefully unprepared to manage the demonstrations when tents went up on the quad in November.

Instead, they responded with such a lack of communication and decision-making that it represented "systemic and repeated failures" by university leaders.

Those are the harsh conclusions of 190 pages of investigative reports released Wednesday that delved into the Nov. 18 pepper-spraying of students and activists on campus during a tuition protest.
....
Wednesday’s report was unveiled to a few dozen students and others at UC Davis’ Freeborn Hall with one blunt main finding: The pepper spray incident "should and could have been prevented."
....
Two hours before the 3 p.m. deadline for the tents to come down, the report said, Pike listened in on a conference call with university leaders and Spicuzza and at one point interrupted: "Student affairs should talk to them rather than bringing in the PD at this point," he said.
....
But investigators found top-level leaders with conflicting views of what was decided, when the decisions were made and why they were made.

Katehi told investigators her understanding was that there was to be "no violence," and she has said she thought police would withdraw if the students resisted.

But Meyer told investigators he believed the decision was that no violence meant "no batons" and that "hands-on use of force by police was acceptable."

The failure to communicate created a "cascading series of errors which set the stage for the use of pepper spray," the investigation found.
The report does not recommend discipline for anyone, but makes it clear that the university leadership failed from the top to handle the protest appropriately.

"It was the systemic and repeated failures in the civilian, UC Davis administration decision-making process that put the officers in the unfortunate situation in which they found themselves ...," investigators concluded.

I say "not the 'final' word on the subject," because now this report can be used for lawsuits against the university and the personnel involved.