Pastor approves living together?

[imwildfire]

Please don't flame me for asking this. I know how wrong this is, but apparently not all pastors do?

This weekend I was speaking with a friend and she was telling me her daughter was going to live with her boyfriend after the lease on his house is up. You could have knocked we over with a feather. I know she professes to be born again and attends a local Baptist Church. I asked my friend if her daughter is still attending church and said "yes". So I boldly asked how could her daughter consider this since it is so clear in the Bible that this is sin. Her answer was that her daughter asked her pastor and he said it was OK because that's how it is in society today. My answer to that was "She needs a new pastor".

Are there really pastors telling anyone that living together in lieu of marriage is OK? I have NEVER run into any pastor that would put his stamp of approval on this arrangement, but then we don't get around much. Shocked doesn't really explain my thoughts.

More importantly, what should we say when told something like this? Other than pointing out scripture, what should we do?

 

[InTheLight]

Could you clarify something? The two are going to live together after the boyfriend's lease is up. Is that correct? So am I correct in assuming the boyfriend is going to move in with your friend's daughter? If so, will it just be the two of them in the household?

Is this couple planning on getting married soon?

 

[Zaac]

Please don't flame me for asking this. I know how wrong this is, but apparently not all pastors do?

This weekend I was speaking with a friend and she was telling me her daughter was going to live with her boyfriend after the lease on his house is up. You could have knocked we over with a feather. I know she professes to be born again and attends a local Baptist Church. I asked my friend if her daughter is still attending church and said "yes". So I boldly asked how could her daughter consider this since it is so clear in the Bible that this is sin. Her answer was that her daughter asked her pastor and he said it was OK because that's how it is in society today.

My answer to that was "She needs a new pastor".

HALLELUJAH!!!

Are there really pastors telling anyone that living together in lieu of marriage is OK? I have NEVER run into any pastor that would put his stamp of approval on this arrangement, but then we don't get around much. Shocked doesn't really explain my thoughts.

More importantly, what should we say when told something like this? Other than pointing out scripture, what should we do?

It's a shame because when you sit underneath leadership that does wrong and gives the okay to do wrong, it's time to change churches. In normal circumstances this is where church discipline is supposed to take place. But seeing that the pastor is part of the problem, that no doubt, won't happen.

Just a shame!!!

 

[imwildfire]

I don't know a lot of details, but what her mother said was that they were going to get a bigger house so that all the kids would fit. Daughter has 4 young children, oldest is 12. Boyfriend has two, I don't know the ages or if they live with him. I'm assuming they are both going to be moving and combining households from what Mom said. I asked if they were going to get married, but the answer was not "any time soon".

 

[Scarlett O.]

Her pastor was right about one thing - it is more and more the norm today. Prince William and Kate were shacked up for 8 years before they got married a few years ago and it, too was under the blessing of one the Bishops in London. I could not for the life of me understand all of the pomp and circumstance surrounding that wedding when there was nothing to celebrate - no new chapter in their lives and no looking forward to a community gathering to show their support for new commitment to "couplehood".

It's hard to explain to someone why cohabitation is a sin. There are varied disagreements here on the BB on just what constitutes marriage. I've been here since 2002 and we still can't agree. The Bible has no set guidelines for making two people a married couple.

But Jesus Christ distinguished between being married and living together when he spoke to the woman at the well about her sin. And if he made a distinction - we should acknowledge a distinction.

The law spoke of three sins between a man and woman - adultery, rape, and fornication. For adultery, they both had to be stoned. For rape, the man had to be stoned. But for fornication (it doesn't use that word, but it's understood), the solution was marriage.

So the Old Testament distinguishes sex between married couple and two non-married people.

 

[annsni]

Wow. That's sad. But then again, there are churches that have strayed from the Word of God so much that some things don't surprise me anymore. I have to say I pretty much agree with all you said - and love Zaac's gif in his post. Pretty much how I feel with this!

 

[InTheLight]

Wow, that is a situation fraught with potential problems. Since they have kids, I presume both the boyfriend and the daughter have been previously married?

I think it's a bad idea to blend two families together without the parents first being married. I can't believe the pastor would counsel that this was an OK situation.

When I first read your post I was maybe, possibly seeing a reason the pastor might have said this would be an OK situation. Something along the lines of the two people are in their early 20's, have never been married, the boyfriend's lease is up and he's got nowhere to live so he's moving into with his finacee's parents for two weeks until the wedding day. He would be under parental supervision until the wedding and they would have separate sleeping arrangements. That MIGHT, MIGHT be something that I could see a pastor saying was OK. But the situation as you've described it? No way.

There are plenty of pastors and some pastor's wives on this site that might want to continue the conversation. I defer to their better judgment.

 

[Zaac]

This type of stuff just makes me hot!!! How dare he, a so called man-of-God, give them a license to do that which is unbecoming of a follower of Christ!

Now I disagree that the living together, cohabitation, shacking up is the sin because that's not what Scripture says. Scripture DOES say to Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thess. 5:22. The whole world is gonna assume that if they look like they are playing house, they probably are doing so in every room of the house.

This is just shameful.

 

[agedman]

I would like to post that some folks make such a mockery of their life, that a pastor may be thinking that bringing stability to the home the couple resolve to make anyway is really the best of all options.

No sense in a formal marriage if there is already a "one flesh" relationship that is known to the family and friends.

 

[salzer mtn]

You would be surprised what preachers spout of now day's. I listened to one Sunday that said no where in America is a child going hungry at night before going to bed. Out of touch is not the word for it.

 

[imwildfire]

Well, I guess I'm not going to get answers to my questions, but I do appreciate the replies posted.

We will continue to wonder "Are there really pastors telling anyone that living together in lieu of marriage is OK?"

We will also continue to wonder "What should we say when told something like this?"

We credit end times with a lot of what we are witnessing. Guess this situation that was placed in front of us is just more of the same "Good becomes evil and evil becomes good".

Thank you to those who replied.

 

[agedman]

To answer the questions:

What should we say (other than Scriptures). "This isn't the way I would have handled the situation, but perhaps he is giving the best advice he knows at the time to give."

What should we do? Nothing, unless you are a member of the assembly or directly involved in the situation.

 

[just-want-peace]

Apparently just another one of those "itching ears", liberalized, preachers.

 

[SeekingTruth]

I would like to post that some folks make such a mockery of their life, that a pastor may be thinking that bringing stability to the home the couple resolve to make anyway is really the best of all options.

No sense in a formal marriage if there is already a "one flesh" relationship that is known to the family and friends.

I don't think any other person can see what was in the pastor's heart or mind. Regardless this pastor is encouraging an illicit relationship between these two. Nowhere in the Bible is this encouraged nor approved All Christians are commanded to avoid the appearance of evil . The couple are in a sinful and adulterous relationship. The pastor is encouraging this relationship. The young children are being taught that this type of life is acceptable to the pastor and society in general. The pastor. by encouraging this relationship, has disqualified himself;f to bed as pastor. There is no Biblical reason that such a relationship should be encouraged by a pastor, parent, or any Christian.

 

[righteousdude2]

Please don't flame me for asking this. I know how wrong this is, but apparently not all pastors do?

This weekend I was speaking with a friend and she was telling me her daughter was going to live with her boyfriend after the lease on his house is up. You could have knocked we over with a feather. I know she professes to be born again and attends a local Baptist Church. I asked my friend if her daughter is still attending church and said "yes". So I boldly asked how could her daughter consider this since it is so clear in the Bible that this is sin. Her answer was that her daughter asked her pastor and he said it was OK because that's how it is in society today. My answer to that was "She needs a new pastor".

Are there really pastors telling anyone that living together in lieu of marriage is OK? I have NEVER run into any pastor that would put his stamp of approval on this arrangement, but then we don't get around much. Shocked doesn't really explain my thoughts.

More importantly, what should we say when told something like this? Other than pointing out scripture, what should we do?

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

It is happening at an alarming rate, pastors and churches permitting this in the pews!

 

[agedman]

I don't think any other person can see what was in the pastor's heart or mind. Regardless this pastor is encouraging an illicit relationship between these two.

Perhaps, but perhaps the relationship between the two is the best for the mess they have made of their living. May I suggest that perhaps there is no "encouraging (of) illicit relationship between the two." They apparently are already joined in "one flesh" and perhaps it is well known by family and friends. Therefore, for all Scripture purposes, they may even be considered married, but not having done the paper work by the local social order.

Perhaps there is also certain financial matters to consider. In some situations, the payment(s) resulting from a divorce are changed when a marriage takes place. I know that as believers financial consideration should not be considered, but as there may be benefit change for the children who may perhaps suffer in lack, then that does become an issue.

Nowhere in the Bible is this encouraged nor approved All Christians are commanded to avoid the appearance of evil . The couple are in a sinful and adulterous relationship. The pastor is encouraging this relationship. The young children are being taught that this type of life is acceptable to the pastor and society in general. The pastor. by encouraging this relationship, has disqualified himself;f to bed as pastor. There is no Biblical reason that such a relationship should be encouraged by a pastor, parent, or any Christian.

Of course they are in a "sinful and adulterous relationship."

Is that situation going to change because the pastor says to "stop?" Nope.

So what then should the pastor recommend? What is BEST for the children.

Is it not best to have as stable a situation in the home, with a man and woman as authority figures? Is it not best for the children to then allow the work of the Scriptures and Holy Spirit to do what neither the man or woman can do?

Too often, believers expect the ungodly or the immature to live by standards that are just not a part of the reality of either the ungodly or the immature.

Because of that, there needs to be time for teaching, growing in the Word, and allowing the Holy Spirit to work. As that takes place, either the couple will be shown as fakers, or come to understand, repent, and make proper alignment that is appropriate.

If the couple do under the authority of the Holy Spirit come to understand, repent, and make proper alignment that is appropriate, then the children will also experience such changes and be all the more understanding and accountable to the Scriptures. All to the Glory of the work of God.

Nothing is accomplished when it is expected that the worldly (believer or unbeliever) who have made such a mockery and mess of their living are expected to "go and sin no more" until they come face to face with the Master who knows all about them and realize first hand that authority over their life and living.

So, would I personally advise as the pastor did? Perhaps, understanding the scenario as it has been laid it out. But, then if the actual scenario is different, then perhaps not.

 

[chelle318]

I was in a church where the pastor never cared that I was living with my son's dad and had been for 5 years or so. So of course I wanted to continue going to that church!! Then I started really getting into the Word and found a new church (still not thinking much of my living situation). This church is amazing and the more I got involved the more I felt God's conviction. Needless to say, we ended up getting married because the weight became so heavy. Being in a church that taught the Word made a difference, but me deciding that it was not a pastor I should be listening to but the Lord made a world of difference.

 

[JPPT1974]

I learn that the pastors I have had are against that idea. Never have and never will. As living together occurs During marriage. Not before as when you come together in marriage. As God made marriage when you marry, you are united by God and for God into one in Him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not everyone who has the title 'Pastor' is a Pastor.

Todd Friel on wickedtv has a video where two 'pastors', one was Michael Beckwith and can not remember the other guy's name, approved of gay marriage. The other pastor said homosexuality was a gift of God and Beckwith said people were gay by divine right. Friel posted them saying this on....GASP....Oprah.

It is on youtube if you want to watch it.

 

[agedman]

I was in a church where the pastor never cared that I was living with my son's dad and had been for 5 years or so. So of course I wanted to continue going to that church!! Then I started really getting into the Word and found a new church (still not thinking much of my living situation). This church is amazing and the more I got involved the more I felt God's conviction. Needless to say, we ended up getting married because the weight became so heavy. Being in a church that taught the Word made a difference, but me deciding that it was not a pastor I should be listening to but the Lord made a world of difference.

What a really neat testimony!

This is an example of what I trust the pastor is actually desiring, allowing the work of the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit to convict and convince unto righteousness.

Continue to grow in wisdom and knowledge of the Scriptures and allow God to work moment by moment on your life and living.

Thank you again that you shared.