Pastor Joel Osteen

[webdog]

Perhaps you should also spend some time reading the actual exchange and Osteen's comments following the incident before you come on a public board accusing someone of selling out the gospel or being a liberal (i.e., less than an evangelical). It is clear you really do not know what he did and did not say.

Like this?

(after King questions him about whether someone who doesn't share in the view of Christ alone for salvation is wrong)
Osteen: "Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let God be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know."

I also do have his response to the criticism he received from his website, so I'm not accusing him blindly as you suggest. His response, while sincere may have also been part of his psycho-theology word of faith garbage.

Unless you are an advocate of the Calvinism=the gospel belief.

You can't be serious! Have you read any of my posts in regards to calvinism? I'm not a calvinist.

BTW, doesn't Paul mention about preaching the "whole council of God"? Does Osteen do this with his "you have to release your faith so God can work" God-puppeteering garbage?

 

[All about Grace]

Like this?

(after King questions him about whether someone who doesn't share in the view of Christ alone for salvation is wrong)
Osteen: "Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let God be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know."

I also do have his response to the criticism he received from his website, so I'm not accusing him blindly as you suggest. His response, while sincere may have also been part of his psycho-theology word of faith garbage.

You can't be serious! Have you read any of my posts in regards to calvinism? I'm not a calvinist.

BTW, doesn't Paul mention about preaching the "whole council of God"? Does Osteen do this with his "you have to release your faith so God can work" God-puppeteering garbage?

And again there is nothing here to suggest Osteen is not an evangelical.

And once again you may disagree with his style and content, but that does not make him any less evangelical.

The Calvinism remark was made in sarcasm and not directed to anyone. I actually am reformed-minded but get a chuckle out of those who teach Calvinism = the gospel. (I just couldn't find the sarcastic icon with the quick reply).

I'm done with Osteen. I have no reason to defend him. Again my purpose was simply to point out there is nothing Osteen has said or any indication that his beliefs make him anything less than an evangelical (not my particular stripe - but an evangelical nonetheless).

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I'm done with Osteen.

raise: And we all offer a hearty AMEN raise:

That is the best line in the entire thread :saint:

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

And again there is nothing here to suggest Osteen is not an evangelical.

And once again you may disagree with his style and content, but that does not make him any less evangelical.

The Calvinism remark was made in sarcasm and not directed to anyone. I actually am reformed-minded but get a chuckle out of those who teach Calvinism = the gospel. (I just couldn't find the sarcastic icon with the quick reply).

I'm done with Osteen. I have no reason to defend him. Again my purpose was simply to point out there is nothing Osteen has said or any indication that his beliefs make him anything less than an evangelical (not my particular stripe - but an evangelical nonetheless).

If he denies the Word of God, then he is not an evangelical. Denying that Jesus is the only way to the Father is denying the Word of God. Joel Osteen has done this publicly. He is not an evangelical.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[All about Grace]

If he denies the Word of God, then he is not an evangelical. Denying that Jesus is the only way to the Father is denying the Word of God. Joel Osteen has done this publicly. He is not an evangelical.

Joseph Botwinick

This is why you always consider the source ...

 

[Marcia]

Quotes are often taken out of context.

For example Osteen was blabbing once about self esteem. When I called Hanegraaf he played a clip from a Osteen sermon that I remember where he was talking about our Thought life. Hanagraaf used that clip to somehow prove to me that Osteen was WOF.

But if you watched the tape in full you will see that Osteen was juist saying that thinking positive will often help us. He used the example of Fast Food workers and said that if you saw yourself as a negative, weak defeated person who only could work in a dog job like FF, then thats your destiny. On the other hand, if you see yourself as beign more than a FF worker, then you will do more. <snipped for brevity>

I've listened to Osteen a lot and also have his book. He is more New Thought in he way he sounds but I've heard WOF stuff, too. I did hear a whole message one day where he taught that what you think can make it happen. The 2 examples given were someone afraid their plant would die, even though they watered it, and a man who was afraid of losing his healthy, relatively young wife. He had no reason to fear but was anxious about it. Finally, she died. Osteen used this to illustrate his message that our thoughts can affect reality. This is directly from New Thought (which is also found in WOF) but goes back further to occult thinking, as IronWill pointed out. Thinking about what you want, visualizing it, and affirming it is part of a process used in sorcery and the New Age. One ceremonial magician, Donald Tyson, writes in his book that "visualization is the heart of magick." This is not visualization as in just imagining things or thinking about what color your kitchen wall should be. This is a technique to visualize so that you can bring it into reality.

Osteen says in his book that you have to say God's blessings out loud or you don't get them. This is more occult/New Thought/WOF beliefs.

On Easter of '05, I heard Osteen say the Jesus went to hell to fight Satan. This is a WOF doctrine.

Osteen may sound evangelical, but is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bible? That is what we should be wondering and asking and investigating. He's very polished and it's hard to hear these aberrant teachings, but they're there.

BTW, Osteen is going to be on Nightline tonight.

 

[IronWill]

I've listened to Osteen a lot and also have his book. He is more New Thought in he way he sounds but I've heard WOF stuff, too. I did hear a whole message one day where he taught that what you think can make it happen. The 2 examples given were someone afraid their plant would die, even though they watered it, and a man who was afraid of losing his healthy, relatively young wife. He had no reason to fear but was anxious about it. Finally, she died. Osteen used this to illustrate his message that our thoughts can affect reality. This is directly from New Thought (which is also found in WOF) but goes back further to occult thinking, as IronWill pointed out. Thinking about what you want, visualizing it, and affirming it is part of a process used in sorcery and the New Age. One ceremonial magician, Donald Tyson, writes in his book that "visualization is the heart of magick." This is not visualization as in just imagining things or thinking about what color your kitchen wall should be. This is a technique to visualize so that you can bring it into reality.

Osteen says in his book that you have to say God's blessings out loud or you don't get them. This is more occult/New Thought/WOF beliefs.

On Easter of '05, I heard Osteen say the Jesus went to hell to fight Satan. This is a WOF doctrine.

Osteen may sound evangelical, but is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bible? That is what we should be wondering and asking and investigating. He's very polished and it's hard to hear these aberrant teachings, but they're there.

BTW, Osteen is going to be on Nightline tonight.

Bulls-eye Marcia!

 

[Revmitchell]

When you stand in the pulpit on national tv and say that "Satan, Sin, and Hell are no longer on the menue at this church. From now on we are only going to talk about the goodness of God".

You at that moment quit being a evangelical if at no other time. You cannot win someone to the Lord without those elements.

 

[Tentmaker]

I've been the debate here, and just had to stop here, and say a hearty AMEN, to you Ironwill.

Preach It!

 

[Bible John]

perhaps Osteen's looks and personality has deceived even me.

If he has, he is much craftier than the cults.

I've listened to Osteen a lot and also have his book. He is more New Thought in he way he sounds but I've heard WOF stuff, too. I did hear a whole message one day where he taught that what you think can make it happen. The 2 examples given were someone afraid their plant would die, even though they watered it, and a man who was afraid of losing his healthy, relatively young wife. He had no reason to fear but was anxious about it. Finally, she died. Osteen used this to illustrate his message that our thoughts can affect reality. This is directly from New Thought (which is also found in WOF) but goes back further to occult thinking, as IronWill pointed out. Thinking about what you want, visualizing it, and affirming it is part of a process used in sorcery and the New Age. One ceremonial magician, Donald Tyson, writes in his book that "visualization is the heart of magick." This is not visualization as in just imagining things or thinking about what color your kitchen wall should be. This is a technique to visualize so that you can bring it into reality.

Osteen says in his book that you have to say God's blessings out loud or you don't get them. This is more occult/New Thought/WOF beliefs.

On Easter of '05, I heard Osteen say the Jesus went to hell to fight Satan. This is a WOF doctrine.

Osteen may sound evangelical, but is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bible? That is what we should be wondering and asking and investigating. He's very polished and it's hard to hear these aberrant teachings, but they're there.

BTW, Osteen is going to be on Nightline tonight.

 

[mcdirector]

perhaps Osteen's looks and personality has deceived even me.

If he has, he is much craftier than the cults.

Isn't that part of the issue though -- We have to be on constant guard to not be deceived. We have to measure what comes out of a preacher's mouth by what the scripture says. We have to measure his actions by that same scripture. It is our plume line, and IMHsteen isn't measuring up.

 

[Bible John]

The Contemporary churches often hire pastors that have good looks, personalities and lots of charm. I am obsessed with the truth, and defending error. Many of those churches do not want me around (at least those that I have been in), as they feel that boldly teaching God's word and exposing error will scare away people. And also God did not give me the best of looks, not charm and personality and another reason why they reject me. So hence the reason why BJU is the best fit for me. I need to eb in such a environment if I want to grow spiritualy. I need to be shaped to be like Christ, and many churches will not help in these ways.

For a long time I was having a identy crisis, until I learned who I was, and learned more about the bible. Pastor John MacArthur really helped me in my journey. As before I was a fulfillment of scripture. Know I'm a fundy, and only a fundy. I will not associate with the evangelical events of the contemporary churches. I wont go to a church just because they are friendly. I look first at the Word of God and the doctrine. Sometimes churches that teach the bible are not friendly. But they teach the bible and thats what matters most.

After having watched Osteen last night, I do not know. He has gone a long way from his father and his Southern Baptist training. He does not teach the gospel message. But is he unsaved? I do not know. No question he fulfills the fruits in Gal 5:22ff which are according to the NIV love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self control.

But having fruit does not make one saved. Mormons have fruits, but they lack Christ.

Sadly much of the contemporary church these days is looking only at fruits, and not looking at doctrine. Doctrine is irrilevant and boring.

Isn't that part of the issue though -- We have to be on constant guard to not be deceived. We have to measure what comes out of a preacher's mouth by what the scripture says. We have to measure his actions by that same scripture. It is our plume line, and IMHsteen isn't measuring up.

 

[Marcia]

Sometimes churches that teach the bible are not friendly. But they teach the bible and thats what matters most.

If they aren't friendly, I don't think they are a good example of being Christians. We need both truth and love.

After having watched Osteen last night, I do not know. He has gone a long way from his father and his Southern Baptist training. He does not teach the gospel message. But is he unsaved? I do not know. No question he fulfills the fruits in Gal 5:22ff which are according to the NIV love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self control.

But having fruit does not make one saved. Mormons have fruits, but they lack Christ.

I saw Osteen on Nightline, too. It was a fluff piece and only lasted about 15 min. They interviewed 2 other preachers in rural areas who do not agree with Osteen's message because it leaves out sin. At least the show did that, but the reporter seemed impressed and taken in by Osteen.

They left out the fact that although Joel Osteen's father, John Osteen, had So. Baptist roots, he did become a WOF teacher. Nightline did not even mention WOF. Fruits are also teachings, so no matter how charming Joel Osteen is or what he does in works, the core of his teachings are unbiblical.

 

[Bible John]

There are different degrees of WOF teachers. I have heard some that make it so obvious, that anyone can pick them out. Then there are some that fool even me.

I still do not believe Osteen is WOF. I'd branch him in with the Rick Warran movement. But this does not mean that Warran is unsaved.


John

If they aren't friendly, I don't think they are a good example of being Christians. We need both truth and love.




I saw Osteen on Nightline, too. It was a fluff piece and only lasted about 15 min. They interviewed 2 other preachers in rural areas who do not agree with Osteen's message because it leaves out sin. At least the show did that, but the reporter seemed impressed and taken in by Osteen.

They left out the fact that although Joel Osteen's father, John Osteen, had So. Baptist roots, he did become a WOF teacher. Nightline did not even mention WOF. Fruits are also teachings, so no matter how charming Joel Osteen is or what he does in works, the core of his teachings are unbiblical.

 

[IronWill]

There are different degrees of WOF teachers. I have heard some that make it so obvious, that anyone can pick them out. Then there are some that fool even me.

I still do not believe Osteen is WOF. I'd branch him in with the Rick Warran movement. But this does not mean that Warran is unsaved.


John

Quotes from Joel Osteen:
Quote:
“There’s power in what you visualize,” Osteen said in Nov.16,2004 sermon “take a few moments each day to visualize things you want in your life so God can bring them to pass He then tells a story about a coach and his team “Close your eyes and envision winning the game”, “they produced exactly what they saw.”
Visualization comes from the Occult.
Quote:
“It’s the same way with us. We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside. If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. It’s not God’s lack of resources or your lack of talent that prevents you from prospering. Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best. ” You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it.” (from, Your Best Life Now, CHAPTER 1, “Enlarging Your Vision”)

Quote:
“Many of you today know this, you believe it down here in your heart. But the reason that you're not experiencing as much as you should is because you're not declaring it. You've got to give life to your faith by speaking it out. Your words have creative power. When you go around saying, 'I have favor, people want to be good to me and supernatural doors are opening.' When you make those declarations of faith, you are charging the atmosphere. And your own words can help to bring it to pass. That is why we should get into the habit of every day consistently speaking God's favor over our lives” (Joel Osteen, “Experiencing More Of God's Favor,” Tape # 212, Daystar, July 10, 2004)
More from the Occult.
Quote:
“You can cancel out God's plan by speaking negative words. God works by laws” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Quote:
“Joel, that sounds like wishful thinking. No, that's using your words to create what you need” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Quote:
“Why did God take away the voice of Zacharias (Luke 1:11-20)? Because God knew his [Zacharias] negative words would cancel out His [God] plan.” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Quote:
“You may have sickness in your body, you need to call in health. You may be in debt, you need to boldly say that you are the head and not the tail” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

 

[Dale-c]

I am obsessed with the truth, and defending error.

Wow, John, if you are obssed with defending error, then no wonder no one wants you at their church!

 

[Revmitchell]

http://www.wacriswell.org/Search/videotrans.cfm/sermon/112.cfm


Criswell talks about this very thing.

 

[Bible John]

Can I get the audio tape? Quotes are often taken out of context.

Quotes from Joel Osteen:

Quote:
“There’s power in what you visualize,” Osteen said in Nov.16,2004 sermon “take a few moments each day to visualize things you want in your life so God can bring them to pass He then tells a story about a coach and his team “Close your eyes and envision winning the game”, “they produced exactly what they saw.”
Visualization comes from the Occult.
Quote:
“It’s the same way with us. We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside. If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. It’s not God’s lack of resources or your lack of talent that prevents you from prospering. Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best. ” You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it.” (from, Your Best Life Now, CHAPTER 1, “Enlarging Your Vision”)

Quote:
“Many of you today know this, you believe it down here in your heart. But the reason that you're not experiencing as much as you should is because you're not declaring it. You've got to give life to your faith by speaking it out. Your words have creative power. When you go around saying, 'I have favor, people want to be good to me and supernatural doors are opening.' When you make those declarations of faith, you are charging the atmosphere. And your own words can help to bring it to pass. That is why we should get into the habit of every day consistently speaking God's favor over our lives” (Joel Osteen, “Experiencing More Of God's Favor,” Tape # 212, Daystar, July 10, 2004)
More from the Occult.
Quote:
“You can cancel out God's plan by speaking negative words. God works by laws” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Quote:
“Joel, that sounds like wishful thinking. No, that's using your words to create what you need” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Quote:
“Why did God take away the voice of Zacharias (Luke 1:11-20)? Because God knew his [Zacharias] negative words would cancel out His [God] plan.” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

Quote:
“You may have sickness in your body, you need to call in health. You may be in debt, you need to boldly say that you are the head and not the tail” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)

 

[Bible John]

Wow, John, if you are obssed with defending error, then no wonder no one wants you at their church!

Oops! I mean I said exposing error. You know what I meant.

But yes I need to learn to take a joke.

 

[webdog]

Can I get the audio tape? Quotes are often taken out of context.

Now you want an audio tape? Read the book where these quotes are from (and not taken out of context, btw)

Osteen is not even in the same class as Warren. This is comparing apples to oranges.