Even if it was totally her fault there was still a problem in their relationship and that is not just her problem but it quickly became their problem. They need to own the problem together and solve the problem together. The need to work as a team and not just two individuals in the same house acting as roommates.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Pastoral Qualification Quandary ??
- Thread starter PastorMark
- Start date
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The phrase in v.12 says "and", which indicates at least two things.... manages his children and his own household. Two things.
Forgiveness may start at repentance, does not automatically equal qualification to lead.
David was forgiven of his sin, but because he was a man of bloodshed, God wouldn't allow him to build His temple.
Moses was forgiven his sin, but because he (as the leader of God's people) transgressed and brought shame to God's name, he was not allowed to enter into the promised land.
Leaders/teachers are held to a higher level of accountability.
The question in the OP was not about when he should return to the ministry. The pastor never left his ministry as his marriage fell apart and his wife divorced him.
peace to you
raying:
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Especially since children were envolved.
He should have resigned and attempted to save his marriage.
peace to you
raying:Serving packs a lot of authority with it.canadyjd; said:
Women in the church performed pastoral work with the sick and the poor and helped at baptism. From the earliest times deaconesses visited the sick, acted as door-keepers at the women's entrance to the church, kept order among church women, taught females in preparation for baptism and acted as sponsors for homeless children. They also carried official messages. There was a clearer line drawn between the sexes than there is today. Women deacons were not on the same level as men deacons. They could not teach and minister to mixed groups of people or men. A pastor never talked with a woman in the church. When he had to speak with a woman in the church it was done through the chain of male deacon to female deaconess then to the woman. There was a clear separation between the sexes. A friend of mine who was a missionary in that part of the country told me it is still that way in the country he was in. He also mentioned that the men sat on one side of the church and the women on the other side of the church. It did not matter if they were married or not.
Do you mean he forgot to put himself first?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Women teaching and having authority over men is prohibited.
Serving certainly demands a great deal of sacrifice and various levels of ability, both mental and physical. I guess I see a difference between going and doing in the authority of the church and "exercising" authority over someone.
If women did not participate, the church would not function as God had intended, and in many churches nothing would get done.
peace to you
raying:
Mark:
I'm late to this discussion, but I'll throw in my 2 pennies for what it's worth.
Bluntly, I think this man has done the RIGHT thing. It is apparent that his wife either was not saved, or that she was at least ACTING "faithless." If SHE decided to leave, or forced him to, and then SHE divorced him, then I Cor. 7:15 applies to him, JUST as it would to any Christian. Period. This also includes his freedom to remarry, as Paul says, "only IN THE LORD."
The only other comment I'd make is, local churches have the right to call anyone whom they desire to be Pastor. Often they make BAD calls. But to reject a man simply because he has a divorce in his past is an extremely narrow and legalistic reading of both the passages dealing with divorce AND qualifications for the Pastorate.
Last week, I preached a Sunday morning service for a Pastor who suffered a divorce -- while in hid first Pastorate. His church is vibrant, it is growing, God is using him, he is anointed. Why punish the Body of Christ AND this man for the sins of his "faithless" spouse? He left that church, and the ministry -- but some years later, after having met his present wife and attending church with her, they discovered he "used to be a preacher," so they asked him to teach, do special services, and eventually to preach. In his first service, several were saved. When their Pastor later retired, the church called him, and "re-ordained" him. And GOD has blessed it!
I have come a long way on this issue since my younger, knee-jerk "Fundamentalist" days. It would certainly be necessary for a man such as this to suspend ministry -- or perhaps suspend his credentials and get under a Godly Pastor who can aid him for a time of healing and counsel. THEN, when that has sufficiently been accomplished, he should be released again to the Body -- with APPROVAL from his local church...
As I said -- for what it's worth, from one who's almost seen it all in 22 years of ministry....
JDale
I'm late to this discussion, but I'll throw in my 2 pennies for what it's worth.
Bluntly, I think this man has done the RIGHT thing. It is apparent that his wife either was not saved, or that she was at least ACTING "faithless." If SHE decided to leave, or forced him to, and then SHE divorced him, then I Cor. 7:15 applies to him, JUST as it would to any Christian. Period. This also includes his freedom to remarry, as Paul says, "only IN THE LORD."
The only other comment I'd make is, local churches have the right to call anyone whom they desire to be Pastor. Often they make BAD calls. But to reject a man simply because he has a divorce in his past is an extremely narrow and legalistic reading of both the passages dealing with divorce AND qualifications for the Pastorate.
Last week, I preached a Sunday morning service for a Pastor who suffered a divorce -- while in hid first Pastorate. His church is vibrant, it is growing, God is using him, he is anointed. Why punish the Body of Christ AND this man for the sins of his "faithless" spouse? He left that church, and the ministry -- but some years later, after having met his present wife and attending church with her, they discovered he "used to be a preacher," so they asked him to teach, do special services, and eventually to preach. In his first service, several were saved. When their Pastor later retired, the church called him, and "re-ordained" him. And GOD has blessed it!
I have come a long way on this issue since my younger, knee-jerk "Fundamentalist" days. It would certainly be necessary for a man such as this to suspend ministry -- or perhaps suspend his credentials and get under a Godly Pastor who can aid him for a time of healing and counsel. THEN, when that has sufficiently been accomplished, he should be released again to the Body -- with APPROVAL from his local church...
As I said -- for what it's worth, from one who's almost seen it all in 22 years of ministry....
JDale
That is sad. Both my wife did not have that kind of experience as young Christians. We were in a church that had excellent leadership and godly men did the leading. Women were busy doing ministry training and discipling other women. It was a great church. We were shocked at how lazy some men were when we went to another church. In so many caes it seems to be the norm though.canadyjd said:
Where is this? Is it in the same passage where the "call of God" is the "one qualification" for pastoring?
Start putting up some Scripture here, Jim.
But I am not ignorant of scriptures, nor do I disregard some and replace them with wisdom of men.God didn't give exceptions in I Tim. 3. He didn't say "manages his household well...unless his wife leaves him at no fault of his own."
God didn't say, "above reproach.... unless he divorces his wife (By the Way, God hates divorce) through no fault of his own."
I assume by your lack of willingness to engage scriptures that you know full well what they say.
I also assume by your personal attacks on me that you have no further argument worth listening to.
peace to you
A wife leaving does not automatically mean he did not manage his household well.
Of course it doesn't, but it does mean that there are legitimate questions that are going to be asked, and that means that he's not "blameless."
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I am not sure that anyone on this thread has "engaged Scripture".
Just where did i personally attack you?
What you do not know is how many look to that man as an example. I confronted a woman a few years ago who told me she was going to divorce her husband. During our conversation she told me that she was entitled ot be happy and also mentioned about some of the deacons of the chruch who were diviorced as thoguht they survived a divorce and turned out alright. People who want to get a divorce will often find any excuse they can get but when they use a church's spiritual leaders as an example something is wrong.
Can God bless a murder who is in prison? Of course. However ione must ask is he the best example? The pastor serves as an example to the flock. Does a divorced person serve as the best possible example to the flock? Only once can I remember that a divorced person I dealt with who was not at fault in their marriage and that was a case where the lady's husband became a drug dealer. A friedn of mine who is a lawyer told me that he quit doing divorce cases because he found that 99% of the cases he saw could have been solved if the couple were willing but in most cases the couple was not willing.
If she left and was at fault then he was unable to manage a rebellious wife which would present a rebellious home. Before I married my wife I went to her dad, my dad, my mom, my sister, my grandparents, my friends, and a man I knew from chruch who was her boss, to ask them what they thought about us getting married. We also received marriage counsleing from the pastor who married us. We went through some marriage preparation materials. Having the support of our family and friends has made a big difference. There was no reason why anyone could have said they did not have ample opportunity to say anything they wanted to me. I know that she asked her parents, grandmother and some relatives too. I thought it important for people to give me input into somethuing that perhaps we may have missed.
My wife has been a tremedous example ot my family and friends. Over and over I have heard the comments about how I have a great wife. I have heard that from my friends, my family, my relatives, and people I do business with. That makes me feel like I have a great wife and I know she is one in a million. She is also an answer to my prayers. I prayed for a wife that was a hard worker like my grandmother and treated people well like her. I also prayed for a wife that would be an example ot my family who were not Chrisitans. Gid has naswered ever one of those prayers inm many ways and soem quite specific. She has the same birthday as my grandmother just 50 years apart. She is the same height as my grandmother was. She is a hard worker and intelligent too. I know that I definitely married a great lady that God provided.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I agree!!!!!!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Several have discussed the meaning of "above reproach" and "manages his own household well". That is engaging the text of scripture.
You said:
It is a personal attack to assume I am married.:smilewinkgrin:
Peace to you
raying:
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The man is serving as a pastor while his marriage falls apart around him.
That most certainly means he is not managing his household affairs well.
It is common sense, it is prima facia, it is clear and convincing evidence that he is not managing his household well. How can it possibly be otherwise?
He has to step down while he reconciles with his wife.
Is he disqualified forever? That is a different question.
peace to you
raying:
apologies for the delay in replying, I've been in other countries.
I do.
Apologies I wasn't responding to your statement. Actually I think his case is a good one to discuss. I do have a problem with people who attempt to besmirch his ministry with no good reason. I don't think you have done that, I wasn't specific enough with the direction of my comment so I apologize if you thought it was aimed towards you. That wasn't my intention.
I do.
OldRegular said:
Apologies I wasn't responding to your statement. Actually I think his case is a good one to discuss. I do have a problem with people who attempt to besmirch his ministry with no good reason. I don't think you have done that, I wasn't specific enough with the direction of my comment so I apologize if you thought it was aimed towards you. That wasn't my intention.
