Featured Paul

The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, as were those who were marked out for destruction. The non-elect cannot even understand the truth.

Man's will never trumps God's will.

So, as to the topic of this thread...Paul was saved according to God's perfect will. He was saved right on time. That occurred when God allowed him to see Christ for who He is and what He had done.

 

We was is and am chosen in Christ.He is the upright one chosen before the foundation of the world. We are fit for destruction none of is worthy of salvation. Only He can save us for what is to come. We are to remain in no matter what. He is our sure foundation. He is the chief cornerstone to be chosen before the foundation of the world without Him we are worthless

 

Here is where Paul acknowledge and submitted to the Lord.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

The above underlined is what is missing in your version of Bible. It's there in the Greek funny it isn't in your version.
MB

 

Can you delineate what is the truth that they should not be able to understand? Can it be the case that the elect not understand that same truth? This might make a great shibboleth.

 

Acts 9:6

(ASV) but rise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

(BBE) But get up, and go into the town, and it will be made clear to you what you have to do.

(CEV) Now get up and go into the city, where you will be told what to do."

(DRB) And he, trembling and astonished, said: Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

(EMTV) "But stand up and enter into the city, and it will be spoken to you what you must do."

(ESV) But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do."

(GNB) "But get up and go into the city, where you will be told what you must do."

(GW) Get up! Go into the city, and you'll be told what you should do."

(ISV) Now get up, go into the city, and you will be told what you are to do."

(KJV) And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

(KJV+) AndG5037 he tremblingG5141 andG2532 astonishedG2284 said,G2036 Lord,G2962 whatG5101 wiltG2309 thou have meG3165 to do?G4160 AndG2532 theG3588 LordG2962 said untoG4314 him,G846 Arise,G450 andG2532 goG1525 intoG1519 theG3588 city,G4172 andG2532 it shall be toldG2980 theeG4671 whatG5101 thou mustG1163 do.G4160

(LEB) But get up and enter into the city, and it will be told to you [what you must do]."

(LITV) Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do? And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do.

(MKJV) And trembling and astonished, he said, Lord, what will You have me to do? And the Lord said to him, Arise and go into the city, and you shall be told what you must do.

(Murdock) But arise and go into the city, and there it will be told thee what thou oughtest to do.

(NAS77) but rise, and enter the city, and it shall be told you what you must do."

(NASB) but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."

(NASB+) but getG450 up and enterG1525 the cityG4172, and R1it will be toldG2980 you whatG3739 G5101 you mustG1163 doG4160."

(RV) but rise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

(Webster) And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said to him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

(WNT) "But rise and go to the city, and you will be told what you are to do.

(YLT) trembling also, and astonished, he said, `Lord, what dost thou wish me to do?' and the Lord said unto him, `Arise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what it behoveth thee to do.'


Looks like it probably depends on the manuscripts chosen by the translators.




Still, Paul did not choose God. God chose him. As is the case of all the elect. None can choose God apart from His working. We see that clearly with Peter's profession:

Mat 16:13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
Mat 16:14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."
Mat 16:15 He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. (NASB)

 

The truth that must be discerned is who Christ is as the Son of God and Messiah. We cannot truly know that apart from the Spirit.

 

I don't know the reason. I only know what Scripture tells us about salvation and God's sovereignty. I would refer you back to Ephesians 1 and Romans 9.


When Jesus was on earth he taught plainly and openly those who were chosen understood and those who were not chosen did not understand. We see that in John 10 and Jesus' teaching of the sheep.

Then note when, and the reason, He began teaching in parables.

 

Wow... can you venture to guess? Of what benefit is it for God to appear to deal with man a certain way that seems obvious but yet you cannot accept that and so you are left to wonder.

Can you tell me what was to be gained by Jesus teaching that only those who were chosen would understand? It wasn't the case that by reason they might come to understanding was it? So, why would God make it look like that was the case? Why don't we have more testimony in scripture and real life to the idea of "I don't know why I didn't understand before but now I do!". For those who understand this knowledge, is it the case that they can't explain it? If they can't explain it then can it be said that they understand it?

 

Why did God appear before Cain the way He did?
Maybe it was for our benefit.

What was gained by Jesus teachings that only the chosen could understand can only be understood by looking to His teachings.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
Mat 13:12 "For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.
Mat 13:13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'
Mat 13:16 "But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear.
Mat 13:17 "For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Mat 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower. (NASB)


What I highlighted in red I actually have heard quite a bit. One common way is, "I grew up in church and heard this all my life. I even got baptized after saying the sinners prayer. But when I was "X" years old it just clicked. I realized I had been playing a game and never really understood the truth."

They may even have great head knowledge and be able to give the right answers but there is no heart knowledge. There is no depth or reality to their knowing.

We see this in Jesus' teaching about the sower and soil types.

Mat 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.
Mat 13:20 "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
Mat 13:21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
Mat 13:22 "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." (NASB)


Only the good soil received the seed firmly implanted and therefore had healthy roots and proper fruit. No soil prepares itself.

 

A men Scarlet.

 

There is a reason why God hid the truth from them, because first they were wise and learned without Christ, they were wise in their own eyes. The other reason is their murdering ways to prevent the spread of the Gospel, which God used for the opposite of what they wanted to spread the Gospel.

The beauty of the Gospel is you do not have to understand, just turn to Jesus just they way you are listen and learn from Him and He will remove the veil that covers their heart and open their eyes to understand. There is hope for those murders Jesus only Jesus, for He is our election. You can hear all you want from Jesus and never come to Him, because the only one who will come is not to those who just listen, but listen and learn.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Matthew 23 :
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[Psalm 118:26]”

Luke 11:
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

1 Thessalonians 2 :
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[Or them fully]

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

2 Corinthians 3:
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

John 9 :
39 Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

40 Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”

41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

 

I do not believe it is. Simply because no one is a sheep until they are saved other wise God would be a liar.
No one is a sheep of the Lords until they have been purchased by His blood.

Partly of both. Paul was a Jew and therefore was blind. The Lord did open Paul's eyes. and the Lord did convince, and convict Paul by simply telling Paul who He was. It was Pauls decision to submit to the Lord's desires.
Christ did not make Paul submit. There is no evidence of that at all. Christ only opened Pauls eyes and then convinced and convicted Paul. The Blindness that was on the Jews did not happen to the Gentiles. Nor does scripture ever say that it did.
Paul acknowledge that the Gentiles were not afflicted with this inability in:
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
MB

 

spoken like a true calvinist!

And THAT is the truth of the Bible!

be prepared to have some questioning you my friend though!

 

We assume that Saul couldn't when he was at the crossroad when he ask what the good path was that he could of not walked from it like those before him like the young rich ruler. That Saul even knowing about the miracles could of walked away a blind man and went home to His family and what he had. We can also assume that it was not an irresistible call.

The mothers womb that He separates us at is the enduring word of God through Jesus that we are born again by. Where we become a new creation.

Saul was cut out from entering the rest because of unbelief. That he was disowned, but was included and crafted back in when he did not continue in his unbelief. That there was a point where Saul was a goat, but Jesus saved him and included him with His own.

Jeremiah 6:16
This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Luke 13:
Repent or Perish

13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Ezekiel 18 :
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29 Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

 

Now all these things happened unto them for types (margin); and they are written for our admonition 1 Cor. 10:11

I believe the reason was so we could have this extraordinary type:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1528709&postcount=3

Excerpts:

“Just as Abel and his offering are, at every point, a wonderful type of Christ and His offering, so Cain, who slew Abel, prefigures the Jews, who crucified their Messiah.....

It was Cain’s God-given privilege to rule over his brother (Gen. 4:7).
Had Israel walked in God’s statutes they would have been the head of the nations (Deut. 28:13).

Cain forfeited his God-given privilege to rule over his brother.
But through sin the Jews forfeited the place and privilege (Isa. 9:14)."

I've no doubt Cain knew exactly what God was warning him of, I suggest it's the majority interpretation of the passage that's in error.

Pink again:

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door; and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him" (Gen. 4:7). This verse has always been a difficult one to expositors and commentators, and we have never yet seen any explanation of it that fully satisfied us.......Undoubtedly the words "If thou doest well" have reference to the bringing of a proper offering to the Lord. In case Cain was willing to do this Jehovah asks, "Shalt thou not have the excellency" (margin), which means, Shalt thou not retain the right of primogeniture over Abel? "And if thou doest not well sin lieth at the door," which we understand to mean, If you refuse to bring the required offering, sin lieth (Hebrew, is crouching) at the door, and like a wild beast is ready to spring upon you and devour you. The remainder of the verse referring back to the matter of Cain’s rights by virtue of his seniority.”
http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Gleanings_Genesis/genesis_07.htm