If he preached the kingdom to a group of Jews and Gentiles alike at the same time then he was preaching to a group that was already saved by grace through faith apart from works. When they heard/read that message and believed I'm not sure unless it states it in the text, which I doubt that it does.
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Paul's Gospel?
- Thread starter TCGreek
- Start date
If we read on to Acts 46 we find out what Paul was preaching.J. Jump said:To saved folks about the resurrection of The Christ. He preached to them the gospel of the kingdom.
Act 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 "For so the Lord has commanded us, 'I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.' "
I see nothing of the kingdom (as in ME doctrine). I see eternal life being preached. And as it has been said repeatedly, "this is the ONLY gospel".
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J. Jump said:If he preached the kingdom to a group of Jews and Gentiles alike at the same time then he was preaching to a group that was already saved by grace through faith apart from works. When they heard/read that message and believed I'm not sure unless it states it in the text, which I doubt that it does.
1. To preach the kingdom is to preach the gospel of gace. Can't you see that from the text? Can't you see that they are used interchangeably?
2. Were the Samaritans already saved, so that is why Philip preached the Kingdom to them? Why did Luke say that even Simon believed and was baptized? What did he believe? Did he believe to be saved and therefore was baptized to proclaim? Of course!
3. But it was the good news of the Kingdom and the name of Christ he heard.
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I agree that the kingdom and salvation are the same gospels. When I say Paul didn't preach the kingdom what I mean is he didn't preach ME. Just wanted to clear that up.TCGreek said:1. To preach the kingdom is to preach the gospel of gace. Can't you see that from the text? Can't you see that they are used interchangeably?
2. Were the Samaritans already saved, so that is why Philip preached the Kingdom to them? What then does Luke say that even Simon believed and was baptized? What did he believe? Did he believe to be saved and therefore was baptized to proclaim?
And this is what the majority of Christendom would say. And with the merger of those two messages you are left with salvation by grace through faith plus obedience, repentance, continual belief, faithfulness, baptism, etc. etc. However that's NOT what Scripture says.I agree that the kingdom and salvation are the same gospels.
And I know you all will deny it and we'll go right back to square one. They aren't the same messages. One is grace where works NEVER enter the picture prior to, during or after. And the other one is a faith that works. They simply aren't the same thing. The Scripture simply doesn't support that view. You are more than welcome to carry on in that view, but I will not be going with you.
There's just way too many contradictions that are placed on Scripture when you combine to the two messages.
:wavey:
J. Jump said:And this is what the majority of Christendom would say. And with the merger of those two messages you are left with salvation by grace through faith plus obedience, repentance, continual belief, faithfulness, baptism, etc. etc. However that's NOT what Scripture says.
And I know you all will deny it and we'll go right back to square one. They aren't the same messages. One is grace where works NEVER enter the picture prior to, during or after. And the other one is a faith that works. They simply aren't the same thing. The Scripture simply doesn't support that view. You are more than welcome to carry on in that view, but I will not be going with you.
There's just way too many contradictions that are placed on Scripture when you combine to the two messages.
:wavey:
1. When Phillip preached to the Samaritans the Kingdom, were they already saved? (Acts 8:12).
2. "But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" (Acts 8:12, ESV)
a. Why did they believe and then were baptized, if the kingdom is only preached to saved folks?
b. According to your view, Philip should have only preached the gospel of grace. Instead he preached the preached the kingdom.
Hope of Glory
New Member
J. Jump said:Again eventually that is true. However salvation by grace through faith apart from works is not the same message as the gospel of the kingdom. During the first part of Paul's ministry the offer was to the Jew first and then the Gentile. Paul was obligated to preach the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews first. If they continued to reject it then he could go to the Gentiles. They came a point where he was not limited to Jew first and then the Gentiles.
Yes, Acts 28:28 is where he says that "this salvation is sent to the Gentiles and they will hear it."
Gentiles have always been able to be saved, the same way as anyone else. So, what is "this" salvation to which Paul refers?
Hope of Glory said:Yes, Acts 28:28 is where he says that "this salvation is sent to the Gentiles and they will hear it."
Gentiles have always been able to be saved, the same way as anyone else. So, what is "this" salvation to which Paul refers?
The same salvation that was offered to the Jews (Rom 1:16, 17).
And the salvation that was offered to the Jews was the kingdom. They already had everlasting life when Christ came to the earth. What they didn't have and subsequently what they wanted to have no part of was a place in His coming kingdom.The same salvation that was offered to the Jews (Rom 1:16, 17).
Yet just another reason why the gospel of grace through faith apart from works and the gospel of the kingdom are not the same thing. Christ's kingdom is 1000 years in length. So if you equate the two message our everlasting life is really nothing more than 1000 years of life, because that is the length of the kingdom.
J. Jump said:And the salvation that was offered to the Jews was the kingdom. They already had everlasting life when Christ came to the earth. What they didn't have and subsequently what they wanted to have no part of was a place in His coming kingdom.
Yet just another reason why the gospel of grace through faith apart from works and the gospel of the kingdom are not the same thing. Christ's kingdom is 1000 years in length. So if you equate the two message our everlasting life is really nothing more than 1000 years of life, because that is the length of the kingdom.
Show me Scripture.
J. Jump said:And the salvation that was offered to the Jews was the kingdom. They already had everlasting life when Christ came to the earth. What they didn't have and subsequently what they wanted to have no part of was a place in His coming kingdom.
Yet just another reason why the gospel of grace through faith apart from works and the gospel of the kingdom are not the same thing. Christ's kingdom is 1000 years in length. So if you equate the two message our everlasting life is really nothing more than 1000 years of life, because that is the length of the kingdom.
Haven't we trod these paths before? What has changed?
That's what 99% of the gospel accounts are about. How much more Scripture do you need than that? You can also look at the first part of Acts, especially chapters 2 and 4.Show me Scripture.
Scripture tells us that Christ came to the lost sheep not the dead. Scripture tells us they were spiritually blind, not spiritually dead.
I would ask you where is your Scripture support to say that these folks were spiritually dead? And when did God stop accepting their faith in the death and shed blood of the animals?
J. Jump said:That's what 99% of the gospel accounts are about. How much more Scripture do you need than that? You can also look at the first part of Acts, especially chapters 2 and 4.
Scripture tells us that Christ came to the lost sheep not the dead. Scripture tells us they were spiritually blind, not spiritually dead.
I would ask you where is your Scripture support to say that these folks were spiritually dead? And when did God stop accepting their faith in the death and shed blood of the animals?
1. If you do not understand the sacrificial system as pointing to the Lamb of God (John 1:29; Hebs 7-10), then nothing I say would amount to ZERO in this discussion.
2. A salvation for the Jews and a separate salvation for the Gentiles is your doing. Such aberration has no place in Scripture.
3. What was offered to the Gentile Cornelius was offered to the Jew Peter (Acts 10-11).
When their Messiah came. They rejected Him and were cut off from the vine. The Gentiles were grafted in.J. Jump said:That's what 99% of the gospel accounts are about. How much more Scripture do you need than that? You can also look at the first part of Acts, especially chapters 2 and 4.
Scripture tells us that Christ came to the lost sheep not the dead. Scripture tells us they were spiritually blind, not spiritually dead.
I would ask you where is your Scripture support to say that these folks were spiritually dead? And when did God stop accepting their faith in the death and shed blood of the animals?
Hope of Glory
New Member
So, y'all don't think Gentiles could be saved until Acts 28:28?
Hope of Glory said:So, y'all don't think Gentiles could be saved until Acts 28:28?
The strawman that you have setup, try taking it done one straw at a time.
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The question was:Hope of Glory said:So, y'all don't think Gentiles could be saved until Acts 28:28?
Do you sacrifice animals? Would God accept it if you did?And when did God stop accepting their faith in the death and shed blood of the animals? (JJump)
OF COURSE it pointed to the LAMB OF GOD. I have stated that before. That is the WHOLE POINT.1. If you do not understand the sacrificial system as pointing to the Lamb of God (John 1:29; Hebs 7-10), then nothing I say would amount to ZERO in this discussion.
You really are showing a lack of understanding to what I believe.
They were saved by their faith in what God had told them regarding that system.
So until you can show when and where God stopped accepting that you have no case to show that the people addressed in the gospel accounts were spiritually dead.
Where did I ever say this? Let me answer it for you. NOWHERE. We are ALL saved by grace through faith apart from works for everlasting life. EVERYONE AT ALL TIMES (past, present and future).2. A salvation for the Jews and a separate salvation for the Gentiles is your doing. Such aberration has no place in Scripture.
EXACTLY! They were both in the same spiritual condition and were both able to entertain the same offer. The offer was the kingdom not everlasting life.3. What was offered to the Gentile Cornelius was offered to the Jew Peter (Acts 10-11).
Going to be hard to prove that on with Scripture, because the disciples....let me repeat that THE DISCIPLES didn't even believe Jesus was going to die until VERY late in His ministry and some probably didn't even believe it until it happened.When their Messiah came.
Peter was bound and determined to stop Him from going to the cross, much less dying on it.
So are you willing to say that these men followed Jesus around as spiritually dead men?
And the coming of the Messiah had to do with the kingdom NOT everlasting life.
J. Jump said:OF COURSE it pointed to the LAMB OF GOD. I have stated that before. That is the WHOLE POINT.
You really are showing a lack of understanding to what I believe.
They were saved by their faith in what God had told them regarding that system.
So until you can show when and where God stopped accepting that you have no case to show that the people addressed in the gospel accounts were spiritually dead.
Where did I ever say this? Let me answer it for you. NOWHERE. We are ALL saved by grace through faith apart from works for everlasting life. EVERYONE AT ALL TIMES (past, present and future).
EXACTLY! They were both in the same spiritual condition and were both able to entertain the same offer. The offer was the kingdom not everlasting life.
1. Listen up readers: Peter told Cornelius to believe in Jesus and he would receive forgiveness of sins (Acts 10:43). Peter share words of salvation (Acts 11:14). This was understood as repentance leading to LIFE (11:18).
2. This LIFE could be nothing more than eternal life promised to those who believe in Jesus (John 3:15, 16, 36). Yet we are told that Cornelius wasn't offer ETERNAL LIFE but the kingdom. ***edited
3. Where and when will this utter nonsense end?
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