PB'S- Does the Holy Spirit use "means"

[pinoybaptist]

Ray, you are not only blind, you, I am starting to believe, may be at that age when senility is setting in.

Ray: Yes, France, German and Russia send representatives to the United Nations and/or their own embassy. Iran has a representative in the U.N.'

Is the United Nations the United States ?

Ray: Oh, I get it. Do not listen to anyone who has been trained in exegetical interpretation. We are to listen to you or Mr. Camping who was never guided through the Scriptures at any Bible College or seminary, either Calvinist or Arminian.

Mr. Camping, for your information, talks the same way you do. He thinks God has his elect, but that elect must hear the gospel or the election may never take effect, therefore, each believer is an ambassador for Christ. I am not a fan or follower of Mr. Camping, although between the two of you, notwithstanding his Calvinism and his 'latter rain theology', he appears to have a better grasp of who he is before God than you do.

Ray: Absolutely! Read Matthew 10:16 & Luke 10:3. Luke 10:3-11 reminds you that Jesus Himself said, 'I send you forth as lambs among wolves. . . '

There you go again, taking one scripture and basing your whole theology on it. Context, please. Who were sent out ? The twelve apostles . Ministry. Who were they to seek out ? The lost sheep of the house of Israel , not the Gentiles, not the whole humankind.

Who will bind them and deliver them up to be killed ? The lost sheep ? Or the citizens of the enemy kingdom.

In fact, Satan sends his people into the presence of the church. Read: Acts 20:29. The evil one sends his ambassadors into the true churches.

For what. Reconciliation ? Are you saying the ministry of Satan is one of reconciliation also ?
His is to deceive, to plant false gospels and false doctrines, to confuse the sheep. So, because Satan sends his envoys into the kingdom of God, is there now a 'diplomatic relationship' between these two kingdoms ?

Ray: If you mean me teaching you truth and the correct interpretation you are correct.

I don't even think of you as being in the ministry the way I understand one being in the true ministry. Your kind peddles mostly lies and ungrounded doctrines.

Consider the entire context of the letter of Paul to the Corinthians staring you at the face from Chapter 1, yet you twist and convolute Scripture to fit your Romanistic theology of all 'Christians' being emissaries and ambassadors to a fallen world, when Paul clearly creates a distinction between those in the ministry and those not in the ministry who must be taught and guided.

 

[Ray Berrian]

pinobaptist,

If any person has not invited Jesus into their heart/life they are not a Christian. It is impossible to please or know the Lord without faith. [Hebrews 11:6]

The sinner's pray is in order and well received by our Lord. Anyone who has not prayed the prayer of the publican, might merely be a Pharisee who thinks he knows God.

'God be merciful to me 'the' {tow} Greek meaning 'the' sinner.' Here was a prayer of repentance toward the Lord. This tax-collector identified himself as being sinful. I don't recall that the Lord said, "My brother come over here; I have autocratically made you one of the elect."

The prayer is found in St. Luke.

Berrian, Th.D.

 

[Ray Berrian]

pinobaptist,

As you say not everyone can be a teaching Elder, [Matt. 28:19-20] but every Christian can tell someone (a sinner) how they came to find/know the Lord. This is our responsibility. [Mark 16:16-17] Every born of the Spirit Christian it to be a ' . . . witness to Him . . . ' [Acts 1:8]

The rest of your post is merely argumentative; believe whatever you desire.

Regards,
Ray

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
pinobaptist,

If any person has not invited Jesus into their heart/life they are not a Christian. It is impossible to please or know the Lord without faith. [Hebrews 11:6]

The sinner's pray is in order and well received by our Lord. Anyone who has not prayed the prayer of the publican, might merely be a Pharisee who thinks he knows God.

'God be merciful to me 'the' {tow} Greek meaning 'the' sinner.' Here was a prayer of repentance toward the Lord. This tax-collector identified himself as being sinful. I don't recall that the Lord said, "My brother come over here; I have autocratically made you one of the elect."

The prayer is found in St. Luke.

Berrian, Th.D.

What you call the sinner's prayer is simply an illustration being made by the Lord Jesus between the unregenerate heart's prayer, and the regenerate heart's prayer.

The Pharisee thought all his good works are being gazed at admiringly by God, and goes as far as point to the other guy, in an "see the difference between him and me" attitude.

While the regenerate person could only place himself prostrate at his God's feet and beg for mercy, seeing as there is nothing he can hope to do to merit that mercy being a despicable sinner.

Such a prayer is heard only because the petitioner is already a child of God. Such a prayer does not make one a child of God. Neither does it guarantee faith.

You ought to know that better than anyone else.

I was 26 years in the Arminian side. You have no clue whatsover on what I have done thinking that that service is for the Lord and the benefit of His children. I have experienced getting up at 3 in the morning on Sundays in a country where we worked from Monday to Saturday, to go fetch a blind couple from the mountain villages where I had to hike up 4 miles to get them and the same distance to bring them home.

I have seen visitors in church being nudged by those who invited them to go forward during the invitation, I have seen people raise their hands and come forward to the altar because that preacher up there had been persistently issuing his altar call for 30 minutes !

I've seen people come forward in tears, some in something like a daze, and yet many of these same people will not come back, or if they do, they are still the same ones who raise their hands and say the 'sinner's prayer all over again.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying all who go that route were never really children of God. Some are. But most, when you come right down to it, are convinced the reason they are saved is because they repented, because they decided in Christ's favor, because they had faith.

And it's not helped any by further false teaching like they're ambassadors for Christ.

 

[Southern]

I have been out of town since my question was posted and have not had a chance to interact with all the comments. Thanks for all the input from different people, but I don't think any PB's ever commented on the verse that was presented on the first post (or I could have overlooked it!). If you could do that I would greatly appreciate it.

In Christ

 

[Southern]

I am leaving town again but would enjoy reading the responses and interpretations to the verse from the first post when I get back. Thanks yall.

May God bless you

 

[Southern]

I had posted a thread for PB’s that was never answered, possible because it was never seen! I start school this week so will not get a chance to interact but would like to know how Primitive Baptist’s interpret the following verse:


For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 1 Thes. 1:5

This is not a loaded question. The PB’s that I am friends with believe that the Spirit generally works “apart” from the word. Please give me your view (concisely) on how you view this verse, which seems to teach a connection between the two in bringing about salvation. Thanks for any input for my future study and the understanding that some of you Primitives have given me in understanding your position.

May God bless you