Pedaphiles in Church

[Phillip]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
Phillip,
I don't think that church is following God. And I think Larry had some good ideas you might want to try. I think staying off xchurch property is a good idea, they would probably charge you with tresspassing. I would go the local association, and even the state association.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with all of you. This weekend is out because I am not prepared, but it is not too late for next weekend and a little inkjet printing. Our local associational missionary (who heads the local association) goes to the new church I attend --- hahaha---That one just hit me-----DUH!

 

[butterbloom]

I was a member of a church where there was a similar problem. One of the well respected, leaders of the church was reported to be a homosexual. There were pastors from other churches who were suppose to have known it and had asked him to leave their church.
The man's business was a church broker. He offered services of all kinds to churches and so he access to many. He was reportedly trying to seduce one our church members grandson who was trying to get out of his homosexual lifestyle. There was corruption in the business practices of the church. Things were being done without the approval or vote of the church and the pastor had become a dictator. He was very involved with this man, as were a circle of members.
The church was divided into two factions. Those who believed that there was evil in the church among that circle and those that did not. It really tore the church apart.
After fighting against it on the personnel committee and speaking my thoughts, and having prayer meetings with people about it..it was not changing but I was. It was killing me spiritually and I chose to leave. The church is now, many years later, and several pastors later, recovering. The man I spoke of is still at his "business". One of the men in the circle died of mysterious causes. Another ended up in jail after he had been caught breaking into the church and stealing.
He has been revealed to be homosexual and has a drug addiction as well. Most of these men were leaders in the church and had families. The families were either in denial or covered for them. This made confronting the issue even more difficult for to confront the man, you hurt the family. Also, because they were leaders and respected, a lot of the members had their blinders on. It's a terrible thing, but satan, attacks from within. Always, be on guard, even when you are in church.

 

[Nicole]

Wow! See, that is exactly my fear when it comes to situations like that. Sometimes I think people get to comfortable with the fact that "most" of the people are good and wouldn't live that kind of lifestyle. I've spoken with people who are totally against church discipline, saying that it is not everyone elses business, it's between them and God. WRONG ANSWER! As a matter of fact, it really reminds me of what Bush is saying about these terrorists! Not only is he planning on punishing those who committed these violent acts, but also ANYONE WHO HARBORS THEM! Same thing with churches! I completly believe that leadership will be held accountable for decision made such as in your church. If they know about something such as your situation, and choose NOT to deal with it biblically, not only have they opened the door to Satan, they have sent him a personal invitation, rolled out the red carpet and allowed him to come in and feast on it's members! We may never know the full extent of the damage done because of that situation....but God knows and I do believe that the leadership that was in place in that church who knew of the situation will be held accountable by God. If their actions caused just one person to turn from the Lord and refuse him, their blood will be on their hands

 

[Phillip]

Nicole;
My wife very much wishes to talk with you and make a new friend. She has a condition you may have heard of called Fybromyalgia which makes her very sick at times and she wants to read through the entire thread before she writes you so she knows what I have told. So, you will be hearing from her soon. My father is very sick and I'm watching him tonight, it is 3:30am so I am dragging down. I hope you had a good weekend and God bless you for standing behind us on this issue. The scary part about issues such as this is that when you hear it enough, you actually (or at least I do) start wondering if you are in the wrong--although logic without emotion should be plain and clear.
God bless,
Phillip

 

[Nicole]

I'll look forward to hearing from her!! And yes, I have heard of that...heard it can really take a lot out of a person..isn't that a condition that even though you always have it, there are times when it flares up and can really affect the person terribly? Tell her I will pray for healing, and if that is not his will, then at least for His comfort and strength. No one likes to be sick! I know that from experience!!! I actually have been doing pretty good for the last 3 days...they gave me another transfussion on Friday and I can tell a big difference. Apparently I only had 1.2% of the red blood cells our bodies require...Between the chemo I'm on and the prednisone I take, it's eating them all up. The transfussion helped tremendously!!! Tell her whenever she feels up to it...I'm here!!!

 

[Larry]

So???????

 

[Phillip]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:
So???????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't understand you for a minute there. It has been a long and tiring day. Nope, I let you down this week, my wife was sick and ALL of my spare time was spent putting together a slide show for my pastor's Sunday Night Bible Study. I finished it ten minutes before church started. I'll write up a nice little warning with them all listed (all in town--I got the list from the PD) and will make a notation that one in particular works (or volunteers) in the tv room. Sorry, to let you down, but my ministry at my current church has become more and more important to me, but still not an excuse--I'll get to work on it tomorrow.

 

[Larry]

Phillip,

How did it go? I don’t want to nag, it's just that I'm extremely bothered at the thought of a Pastor putting children at risk (Shepherds are supposed to protect the flock). And when this pervert dose molest a child, it will be a reproach on Christ.

I realize that printing large numbers of fliers can be expensive, so if that’s a problem just say the word and I will help.

 

[Danette]

I have a question for the house on this subject -- what would you do if you knew a leader in a church was molesting children but had no proof? I know this because it happened to my brother (and the fruit in the lives of the children of the church says it's been happening for over 20 years and, since people don't change for no good reason, it's bound to be happening now. There is a stronghold of sexual immorality in this organization with a past history of covering up "for the sake of the ministry" with others of the leadership who are not there now). This man preys on very young boys who don't understand what has happened then he quits and moves on to other boys (he's the principal of the Christian school in my parents' church) before the boys are old enough to realize the significance of what has happened.

My parents have been told now by my brother (who is now 24) and they tried to talk to their pastor about it. But when their pastor chose not to pursue it my parents dropped the issue as well and are still in that church. I'm having a BIG problem with this. All I know to do is continue to pray for exposure. But I also know that God let a previous leader continue in his "under the carpet" immorality for well over 20 years before he was ousted. And the only reason he was ever put out was because it became so public that the man became a liability when it couldn't be concealed any longer -- not because what he had done was wrong and deserved public action.

-- Danette

 

[Joy]

As a mother, I would immediately get my kids away from anyone I thought might be hurting them or any other child. If this is something that is being swept under the rug, make some noise about it. If the leaders in the church won't deal with it, report it and let the police investigate it. This type of behavior is also a crime. Messy? Yup, but when this type of sin is not confronted and dealt with, it affects the entire body, worse than if it is confronted and dealt with.

A lot of people that have been molested, especially in a church setting, are afraid to come forward with it for fear of causing division, strife, and embarrassment to the church. You must realize that the perpetrator is the one that caused the problem in the first place. Sexual sin affects everyone, not just the person commiting the sin. Leaders who refuse to investigate and root out these problems openly are cowards and do not belong in the ministry. They are more concerned about their own reputation than the lives of the innocent victims, and that is the height of selfishness. If they just don't know about it, then they need to be told so that they can help keep children safe.

On the other side of the issue, some have been accused falsely, and that can be just as hurtful. I would be sure to get as many facts as possible before making such a serious allegation. You still may want to keep your children away from certain individuals before all the facts are known, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Dr. Bob]

We had an ACE Supervisor who would spend inordinate amounts of time working with the "boys". He would put an arm around them, kneel down by their desk to help, and such.

I (pastor/admin) suspected nothing. One day I came in the room and called him over to me and noticed that when he came, he had difficulty hiding an erection. This tipped me off to a greater problem.

Thankfully there was no unseemly activity and he left teaching and our church totally. Had he sought a position in another church/school, I would have warned the pastor there about it. Since there was no overt action, there was no need for overt discipline by the church.

This is only becoming a growing problem outwardly, as people deal with it; it has been a hidden problem for a long time.

 

[Danette]

I'm not in that church or anywhere near it. I'll be visiting at Christmas and I don't think I can go to church with my parents because I have such a serious problem with this particular issue.

My siblings and I have been praying about this for quite awhile and just don't see what we can do. What we "know" and what we can prove are two VERY different things. Even pointing out all the indicators doesn't add up to proof, especially against a system that refuses to consider it.

Meanwhile, it sits like a thorn, festering and bothering. The fact that this man also physically (through excessive and unearned spankings as school administrator - even demonstrably unearned) and verbally (publically called him gay and publically humiliated repeatedly) abused my brother, in addition to the sexual abuse, he goes on about his business, day in and day out.

I do worry that because this is so personal, I am truly angry at him. I know he is a walking wounded himself to do these things, and I would have no personal feelings IF HE WEREN'T GETTING AWAY WITH IT STILL. I had the same problem with the other person in leadership who was involved in immorality. I guess it's more about the un-dealt-with assault what is right and, especially on children, than with the person himself. I have been able to forgive the things I have experienced personally, but to see my brother hurt and no one, not even my parents, will stand up for him REALLY bothers me. My siblings and I are reluctant to get "nasty" about it because it would so hurt my parents, too. But meanwhile, other children are being hurt and my brother feels like he is less valuable than an entire corrupt church system and all the people who pander to it.

Letting off steam...

-- Danette

 

[Joy]

I'll pray for you, Danette! This is certainly a tough issue to tackle! I guess in this situation, I'd be inclined to follow the warning signals your head and heart are giving you. I don't think I could feel uplifted in a service at that church either.

Taking a stand above your parents is "really" tough too, I know, because I had to do it before. It wasn't easy, and I had to wait several years for all the water to wash under the bridge.

When the devil attacks us with these sorts of things, it is easy to get discouraged and angry. The only way to combat it is to bask yourself in God's goodness and love, and bathe yourself in His Word. He promises to be our guide and our comfort and our strength!

Love and prayers, Joy

 

[Phillip]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:
Phillip,

How did it go? I don’t want to nag, it's just that I'm extremely bothered at the thought of a Pastor putting children at risk (Shepherds are supposed to protect the flock). And when this pervert dose molest a child, it will be a reproach on Christ.

I realize that printing large numbers of fliers can be expensive, so if that’s a problem just say the word and I will help.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, actually I think it is not going to cost a dime because a survivors group out of OKC has already made it clear that they have to warn the parents and it is my understanding this has been done, but I won't know for sure until next week when I can talk to a member. I think they were supposed to meet with the church and parents in a group to pass around the information and make sure it was shared properly or they would be turned into the local police department for non-notification laws. I think we did it. My wife found the survivor's group for me. Thanks so much for your concern, but I think it is NO LONGER a secret. Plus, it was official so it didn't just look like somebody spreading rumours. Thanks for your offer, but if I confirm this was handled properly I think we are in the clear. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Larry]

Thanks Phillip, sounds good.

I'm not talking about you, with what I'm about to say I'm including ALL Baptist in the USA, even me.

We have our sound systems and the world's smartest preachers BUT when it comes to actually rolling up our sleeves and taking a stand for righteousness, it's left up to a "survivors group". Let me say, I appreciate the fact that you were going to take a stand.

What a golden opportunity, we are wasting. How many people could the church, on the corner, reach if it appointed itself as the "community watch dog"?

A Church could hold a "protect the Lambs" seminar. I'm sure we could get free advertising as a PSA and really draw a crowed of lost people. The PSA could say something like this; "did you know there are 214 registered child molesters living in this city?" promise to provide each guest with a printout of names and addresses of child molesters in the community. Maybe a guest speaker from the police department. Most importantly the PSA should offer help for the hurting.


Any way, I'm glad you did what you did. Lord bless

 

[ChelleBell]

My siblings and I have been praying about this for quite awhile and just don't see what we can do. What we "know" and what we can prove are two VERY different things.


Danette, how much proof do you need? Your brother should be proof enough. Maybe your brother knows others who were abused that would come forward. Try talking to someone other than the person you have talked to about getting this problem fixed. Your parents should be extremely upset but maybe they feel responible to some point and don't want to admit it. Have a meeting with your siblings and parents and let them know that you plan to see something done about this. Maybe during your Christmas visit.