manchester
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Pentecostal Man’s Glossolalia Echos NBA Rosters
- Thread starter Joseph_Botwinick
- Start date
tamborine lady
Active Member
2 Kings 2-23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Aren't we glad that God doesn't deal with bad people this way anymore?
Of course there was Annias ans Saphira in the new testament, but then that;s another story!!
Peace,
Tam
Your point is taken Tam. The lesson to be learned throughout the whole of the Bible is that there is a consequence for sin. Whether in the Old Testament or in the New, or in modern times, sin has its consequences.
"The wages of sin is death." It always has been.
You gave the example of Annanias and Sapphira. That's a good example.
In 1Cor.11:30 it tells us that some of the Corinthians were "weak, sickly, and some were dead." because they abused the Lord's Table. God will not be mocked. There is a consequence for sin.
There is a consequence for following false doctrine--far more serious than that of sin.
The followers of Jim Jones. What became of them?
In the O.T., the followers of Baal. What became of them when Elijah challenged them which God they were going to serve?
The followers of David Koresh. What happened to them?
The followers of Mohammed. What is their eternal destiny?
Those that follow a cult are no more different. The followers of the J.W. doctrine go to the same eternal place of torment that the followers of Mohammed do. So do the followers of all cults, because they follow not the true doctrine of Christ.
DHK
"The wages of sin is death." It always has been.
You gave the example of Annanias and Sapphira. That's a good example.
In 1Cor.11:30 it tells us that some of the Corinthians were "weak, sickly, and some were dead." because they abused the Lord's Table. God will not be mocked. There is a consequence for sin.
There is a consequence for following false doctrine--far more serious than that of sin.
The followers of Jim Jones. What became of them?
In the O.T., the followers of Baal. What became of them when Elijah challenged them which God they were going to serve?
The followers of David Koresh. What happened to them?
The followers of Mohammed. What is their eternal destiny?
Those that follow a cult are no more different. The followers of the J.W. doctrine go to the same eternal place of torment that the followers of Mohammed do. So do the followers of all cults, because they follow not the true doctrine of Christ.
DHK
tragic_pizza
New Member
There are indeed none where I do not question what has been said, which is not to say that this has not been a form of edification. However, questioning the behavior of another is not the same as taking a position on an issue. So again, where have I taken a position on oneness pentecostalism or glossolalia?
I can't quite put my finger on whether this is a straw man argument or an ad hominem attack. In the long run, it doesn't matter.
DHK, I'm badgering no one. My questions have been simple ones, I have taken no position on any issue except to say that mockery and belittling is not at all Christlike. This is not a foreign concept to Christianity, and I would argue that, within the framework of acting as salt and light to the world, it is not a negotiable position. Mockery, hatefulness, open disdain, none of these are loving responses; rather they are the actions of a persecutor.
And in this lies the great danger. You see, it has always been the tendency that, when an individual or group suffers persecution for their beliefs, they find confirmation for those beliefs in suffering, and cling to them all the more.
Thus by mocking glossolalia throughout this thread, rather than by stating the truth in a loving and compassionate manner, the original poster and others have served to confirm in the minds and hearts of Pentecostals of various stripes that their theology is indeed God-ordained... thus defeating your purpose at your own hands.
As Pogo once said, "We have seen the enemy, and he is us."
DHK, I've not mocked you, yet I have been insulted, threatened, and maligned. It is for this, and not for your beliefs in re glossolalia, oneness pentecostalism, or any other thing, I have said that I expect an apology.
I agree with you DHK. I'm so glad that you saw the light and left pentecostalism. Here is a quote by Charles Stanley, who grew up with a Pentecostal grandfather. "Some feel that the purpose of tongues is to enable them to have a prayer language". "I understand that some feel very strongly about this, however, prayer language is not a term used in the Word of God. And gift were given so that we could build one another up, not use them in private, Paul stresses that the church is to be edified. If you just stop and think of the pastors like Billy Graham, Adrian Rogers, Charles Stanley, Max Lucado,John MacArthur, David Jerimah, and many more. These are wonderful men of God, that walk daily in the Spirit. Now on the flip side, there's Jim Baker, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hen, Oral Roberts oh and let's not forget Jimmy Swaggart. These is a hugh difference in the Godliness of these two groups of men. Who do you want to follow? All of the people that are for tongues for today, really need to look up the beginnings of charaisma. It didn't start until the early 1900's, I can't figure out what happened in the 1800 plus years. When you study the beginnings, see what happened to the pioneers that started it.
mee,
No, I don't think people know if what they are doing is fake. They feel like what they are doing is coming from God. Charles Stanley says,
"I caution beleivers who speak in tongues to evaluate carefully their motivation. Is is for the glory of God, or is it because of pressure from a group? The Holy Spirit is not going to give someone a gift for just themselves, the Gifts of the Spirit are for the whole body. Someones experience is never a reason to authentize anything, it's the Word of God.
No, I don't think people know if what they are doing is fake. They feel like what they are doing is coming from God. Charles Stanley says,
"I caution beleivers who speak in tongues to evaluate carefully their motivation. Is is for the glory of God, or is it because of pressure from a group? The Holy Spirit is not going to give someone a gift for just themselves, the Gifts of the Spirit are for the whole body. Someones experience is never a reason to authentize anything, it's the Word of God.
tragic_pizza
New Member
So, cindig2, would you laugh at a joke about handicapped people? Black people? And how is this different from that?
tragic_pizza
New Member
Bigotry is bigotry, though. That's the comparison.
Come on now, let's make some sense. Getting a chuckle from what Joseph wrote concerning people that "think" they are getting something from God is nothing even remotely like laughing at a disabled person or blacks.
I beleive the practice of tongues were associated with the infant stages of the new church. Paul knew that a day would come when the church would reach a level of maturity where it could put away the things of childhood. (1Corn.13:11).
I beleive the practice of tongues were associated with the infant stages of the new church. Paul knew that a day would come when the church would reach a level of maturity where it could put away the things of childhood. (1Corn.13:11).
Evidently, the gift of tongues was given to one church, a carnal, immature one at that. They were out of balance, and all the indications point to the fact that tongues caused problems. Paul did not mention the gift in of Galatia and Ephesus, where he spoke much about the Spirit.
What's amazing is the fact that entire religions have been started because of tongues.
What's amazing is the fact that entire religions have been started because of tongues.
tragic_pizza
New Member
So if I make a joke about something you hold faith in, and openly laugh and rail at you, it's OK because you aren't a racial/ethnic minority or disabled?
I think not.
Should one have issues or concerns in re another's core values and beliefs, deriding said beliefs and values through humor is perhaps the worst way to voice those concerns. We are not twelve-year-olds here, we are (at least chronologically) adults. The joke was not funny, is not funny, and every effort I have thus far read to try and justify its existence has bordered on the asnine.
It was and remains simple religious bigotry.
TP;
And THAT is your opinion. You are entitled to that.
I thought it WAS funny because I HAVE been in that mess called Pentacostalism. And I HAVE invented sounds so that folks would think I ":got it".
I was a very young man, (21) and VERY newly saved. I believed what they told me, in spite of my inability to see what they offered as Scriptural support for it. And they DID tell me to "just start" and God will do the rest. They called this "stepping out in faith".
It is all so very wrong. Therefore, the joke IS funny because it IS true.
You don't think so. We get that. Ok, fine. So you have demonstrated that you are thin skinned. This is ok. You'll grow out of it. Maybe.
In HIS service;
Jim
And THAT is your opinion. You are entitled to that.
I thought it WAS funny because I HAVE been in that mess called Pentacostalism. And I HAVE invented sounds so that folks would think I ":got it".
I was a very young man, (21) and VERY newly saved. I believed what they told me, in spite of my inability to see what they offered as Scriptural support for it. And they DID tell me to "just start" and God will do the rest. They called this "stepping out in faith".
It is all so very wrong. Therefore, the joke IS funny because it IS true.
You don't think so. We get that. Ok, fine. So you have demonstrated that you are thin skinned. This is ok. You'll grow out of it. Maybe.
In HIS service;
Jim
tragic_pizza
New Member
You need to go back and show me where I have said that I am Pentecostal, and thus am reaction to a personal insult.
Let me save you some time. I have not posited a stance on tongues. I am, if you care to look at my profile, Presbyterian, and PC(USA) at that.
The truth of the matter is debatable, and is frankly not a part of this discussion as far as I am concerned. What is germaine to this discussion is the fact that this "joke" is insulting to a given group of Christians, and blatantly so.
Your justification in thinking it funny, like so many others, is based upon your own subjective experience. Once again, it hearkens back to other forms of bigotry, religious and otherwise, where because of a person's limited experience, all members of a race/sect/tradition are painted with the same brush.
No, mister 1611, you don't get it. The joke doesn't insult me directly, but I think that any Christian that can mock and deride any Christian belief that does not walk in lockstep with his or her own particular belief system is a hypocrite, plain and simple. That this board seems to host so many of them is pitiable.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
I have not mocked or derided any Christian belief on this board.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph Botwinick
You don't get it do you TP? In the end you do realize that you are defending the Charismatic movement whether you say you are or not. You have implicitly taken a stand in favor of the Charismatic movement by your silence in not standing against them.
Elijah had no trouble standing against the prophets of Baal, nor making a mockery of their religion. But you do, apparently. I suppose that section of Scripture must really bother you.
Does Jeremiah 10 bother you too? "Learn not the way of the heathen," Jeremiah says. And then he mockingly describes what the way of the heathen is. He derides them. You really ought to read your Bible sometimes. Even God mocks and derides his own people, the nation of Israel, in the Old Testament. And He does so with great sarcasm. At one point he refers to Ephraim as a "silly dove."
He refers to Moab as "my washpot." Ooooh, that's nasty!! Do you put yourself on a higher level then God??
On the other hand if one were to mock God, or the servant of the true and living God (such as Elijah), they would pay the price. When the youths came out calling Elijah names: "Go up thou bald head, Go up thou bald head!" What happened? A bear came out of the woods and killed them. Mocking a false religion is one thing; mocking the true and living God is quite another.
DHK
You need to go back and show me where I have said that I am Pentecostal, and thus am reaction to a personal insult.
Let me save you some time. I have not posited a stance on tongues. I am, if you care to look at my profile, Presbyterian, and PC(USA) at that.
The truth of the matter is debatable, and is frankly not a part of this discussion as far as I am concerned. What is germaine to this discussion is the fact that this "joke" is insulting to a given group of Christians, and blatantly so.
Your justification in thinking it funny, like so many others, is based upon your own subjective experience. Once again, it hearkens back to other forms of bigotry, religious and otherwise, where because of a person's limited experience, all members of a race/sect/tradition are painted with the same brush.
No, mister 1611, you don't get it. The joke doesn't insult me directly, but I think that any Christian that can mock and deride any Christian belief that does not walk in lockstep with his or her own particular belief system is a hypocrite, plain and simple. That this board seems to host so many of them is pitiable. </font>[/QUOTE]Now please, pizza, stop defending the lie and its liars. What about so-called christians who deny the Trinity? What about many more who deny Grace; God's free will, etc.? Must we not wake up in holy anger?
Christ, in His Triumph through Grace, says Colossians 2:15, made the laughingstock of the champions of "the doctrines of men".